Post by HARSH CHAUDHARY on Feb 27, 2010 21:40:35 GMT 5.5
BHAI HARSHANA AND BHAI A.P. RAM RAM BHAI I JUST WANNA SAY THAT I AM VERY YOUNG TO SAY U SOMETHING BUT WILL SAY ONE THING THAT IS WHENEVER I READ THE HISTORY OF GURJARS WE PEOPLES WERE VERY MUCH READY TO EXPEL OUR PEOPLES FROM OUR SOCIETY FOR THEIR WRONG DOING THAT WAS FINE FOR THAT TIME AS WE WERE TRYING TO SAVE PURITY OF OUR RACE BUT IS IT REASONABLE TODAY BRO. AS EVERY 10TH GIRL OR THE BOY FROM DOING LOVE MARRIAGE ..... HENCE I WANNA SAY ONE THING THAT DONT EXCLUDE THE PEOPLES WHO ARE CONSIDERED AS GURJAR TODAY .... TODAY WE NEED TO REARRANDE THE LEGENDS OF GURJAR BIRADARI WHETHER OF PAST OR OF THE PRESENT AND CONVINCE THE SOCIETY TO ACCEPT THEM AS GURJARS BEST EXAMPLE WHAT Jat DID IN PUNJAB THEY PASTED BHAGAT SINGH AS Jat ..... AND IF U KNOW SOMETHING REAL BOUT THAT HE WAS A TARKHAN FOR SURE .... BUT ONCE I SAW HARSHANA BRO TO CONSIDERING HIM AS Jat .... THEN SEE THE POWER OF Jat THEY WERE PICTURISING NON JATS AS Jat AND THE SOCIETY IS READY TO ACCEPT THEM IN A HURRRY EVEN GURJARS TOO WITHOUT ANY CLUE.... HENCE WE HAVE TO EXTRACTS OUT OUR HIDDEN DIAMONDS FROM HISTORY AND PRESENT AND SHOW THEM TO WORLD AS GURJARS AND WORLD HAVE TO ACCEPT THIS ..
Post by Ashok Harsana on Feb 28, 2010 9:56:35 GMT 5.5
AP Singh Ji,
I will provide links for sure regarding panna being a gujjari.
You are right about the rigidness of our society regarding the marriage thing and all. But Bhagat Singh Sandu was a Jat Sikh and not a Tarkhan. And even if he was so, he called himself a Jat many times, I will provide u with the links regarding that also.
Post by harsh chaudhary on Mar 1, 2010 10:52:08 GMT 5.5
BHAI HARSHANA HAPPY HOLI TO U AND ALL THE GURJARS AMONGST THE WORLD BHAI THERE IS A BASIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JATS AND THE GURJARS AND THAT IS WE PEOPLES ARE VERY MUCH READY TO BOYCOTT THE PEOPLES WHO DO THE INTERCASTE MARRIAGE FROM THE SOCIETY BUT THAT IS DIFFERENT IN JATS THEY PEOPLE ACCEPT THE INTERCASTE MARRIAGES AND MAKE THEIR NON Jat RELATIVES AS Jat..... IT WAS VERY COMMON IN PUNJAB REGION AND STILL ITS IN TREND ... AND ONE MORE THING IS THAT BRO ITS A SOCIEL ACCEPTANC IN PUNJAD THAT ANY SONG OR THE MOVIE THAT EXPOSE THE WORLD Jat IS NORMALLY ACCEPTED AND PEOPLE CALL THEMSELVES AS JATS IN FRONT OF THE NON PUNJABI PEOPLES... BUT IF YOU ANALYSE THEM ONLY FEW WILL BE THE JATS IN REAL ... AND ITS MEDIA AND WRITERS IN BRITISH ERA WHO EXPOSED BHAGAT SINGH AS Jat.... I CAN SAY THIS WITH CONFIDENCE AS I HAVE MANY TERMS AND RELATIONS IN PUNJAB.... AND ONE MORE THING THERE ARE MANY GAUTS IN TARKHAN WHICH RESEMBLES WITH Jat GAUTS LIKE SINDHU SNADHU WALIA UPPAL SIDHU VIRK AND MANY MORE ...... SO DONT COUFUSE YOUR SELF AND OTHER I AM VERY CONFIDENT ABOUT THIS AND WILL TRY TO COLLECT SOME PRINTED MATERIAL FOR MY CLAIM.... ITS LIKE AS HOW WE WILL PROVE PATEL SAHEB AND SHIVAJI AND MANY OTHERS GURJAR LEGENDS ASGUJARS .... IF WE GURJARS KNOW THESE PEOPLES BUT YOU WONT BARK INFRONT OF EACH AND EVERY PERSONS TO PROVE THEM AS GURJARS .... AS THERE IS NO PROOF OF THESE PEOPLES IN OUR TEXT BOOKS AND OTHERS DOCUMENTS ....FOR EXAMPLES KURMIS CLAIMS PATEL SAHEB AS THEIR ICON AND THEY PROUDLY PRINTED THAT THINGS IN NEWS PAPERS AND IN MANY MAGAZINES... SO SIR DONT YOU PLZ HAND OVER OUR LEGENDS TO OTHERS AND DONT ADD THE PEOPLES WHO DONT BELONG TO THEMM... I WILL BE VERY THANKFUL TO YOU THNKS
Dhabhai/ Dhawai is not a gotra among Gujars.....it was a title given to some Gujar families as detailed in my earlier post ....for example the Ex MLA / Minister & Rajyasabha MP Sh Shivcharan Singh ji from Karauli (Rajasthan) is "Dhabai" but his gotra is Bainsala.....! There are other live examples from Bharatpur / Udaipur... who have big havili and land even today.....!!
Panna Dhai was Gujar and the local historians / old folk stories / Geneology records & literature provide sufficient evidences on it....!
The Maratha King of Nagpur (Bhonsle) were of Gujar stock as Gujars were included among 5 (out of total 96 clan ) most imperial / royal clans of Maratha..........(see Nagpur Gazetteer official website of Maharashtra Government)
The origin of any new community like Rajput, Maratha, Patel is a result of complex socialogical / economical / agriculture / geographical / migration / marriage patterns for centuries.............we should not have biased attitude if we want to understand the same....!!
Panna Dhai was Gujar and the local historians / old folk stories / Geneology records & literature provide sufficient evidences on it....!
Local bards of Rajstahan can not be called historians. I have personally did lot of work and found where these so called historians have cheated in History.
Please answer the three main points if you believe these Rajasthani bards called historians.
1. If Panna Dhai was a Gujjar, in that case most of the nurses today must have been Gujjar girls from Rajasthan but the fact is that Gujjars does not allow their females to work in such jobs. That traditions never existed among Gujjars. In Rajasthan innocent Gujjars are also made to believe that Gayatri was a Gujjar woman whereas that temple of Gayatri in Pushkar does not have any record of Gujjar Chauhan era when most of temples were built is Pushkar by Gujjar Chauhans.
Dhabi is a very old clan of Gujjars and if it consist of many gotras in that case it must be a Gujjar Khap ( consisting of many gotras as Leva, Chawras, and Kharis)
Panna Dhai was a Khechhi Rajput. In the story published by the author they are written as Chauhans. Among Gujjars Chechi clan does not write as Chauhan since Chuahan is a branch of Chechi and not voce versa. Chechi Gujjars were the rulers of Cherchan ( Chinese Turkestan) and Chechanya ( an independent country today in Central Asia) during the days of Imperial Gujjar Kushans.
1. Jaipur was not ruled by the ancestors of the family which is presently seen as the rulers. These were established only during the time of Akbar. Please provide the historical evidence in which capacity the ancestors of this family fought against or in support of Babar? 2. Jodhpur was not ruled by the ancestors of the family which is presently seen as the rulers. These people have occupied these lands only after the invasion of Babar and established themselves only during the rule of Shahajahan, who was born from a girl of this family. Please provide the historical evidence in capacity the ancestors of this family fought against or in support of Babar?
1. Bagar region was ruled by the Bagari Gujjars at the time of invasion of Babar. Beawar by Beaware gujjars, Banswara by Bainsla Gujjars. Only after the invasion of Babar the family of Shivaji ( Bainsla Gujjars) moved to Nagpur and Satara in present day Maharashtra.
As per the historians the Udaipur ( Old name Nagda, the capital of Nagadi or Nagari or Nagara Gujjars). Your local bards says that Mewar region ( part of Bagar region) was ruled by ancestors of Rana Sanga. I have found the following details which these bards have certainly missed while stealing the Gujjar History. Please see the following in support of my claim.
1.THE AIN I AKBARI BY ABUL FAZL 'ALLAMI (ri, Volume 2, chpt. 167 )
In the vicinity of Mórá and Mangréj is a state called Pal through which runs the river Mahendri towards the Gujarát side. It has a separate ruler who resides at Dúngarpúr. On the Málwah side is Bánswálah (Bánswára) and that too has a separate chief. Each of them has a force of 5,000 horse and 10,000 foot, and both are of the Sesódiah clan. The rulers were of the Ráná's family, but for some time past it has been otherwise.
2.The Memoirs of Babur, Volume 2 confirms that Bagar region was ruled by Nagari Gujjars.
Salâh ud dîn, Governor of Raisen and Sârangpûr, was in possession of a territory that could furnish 30,000 horsemen; Râwal Udai Singh Nâgari had 12,000 horsemen; Hasan Khan Mewâti, Governor of Mewât, 12,000; Bahâdur Hemladuri, 4,000; Sattervi Kachji, 6,000; the Governor of Barmul, Parm-Deo, and Mirta, 4,000; Birsingh Deo Jehân, 4,000; Mahmûd Khan, son of ...
... remainder, becoming a prey to confusion, were scattered
The Memoirs of Babur, Volume 2, chpt. 63
... ten infidels, who, unlike the ten blessed, unfolded the misery-freighted banners, which mark them out for futuretorment and wailing, possessed many dependants and armies, and wide-extended pergannas. As, for instance, Silâhed-dîn possessed thirty thousand horse; Râwal Ûdai Sing Nâgari, ten thousand horse; Medini Rai, ten thousand; Hassan Khan Mewâti, twelve thousand horse; Bârmal Îdari, four thousand horse; Narpat Hâda, seven thousand; Sattervi Kachi, six thousand; Dharm Deo, ...
The Memoirs of Babur, Volume 2, chpt. 65
... their heads. Hassan Khan Mewâti was enrolled in the band of the dead by a matchlock shot, and in like manner many of these bewildered and misled rebels, the leaders of that army, were struck by arrows or musket-shot, and closed their lives; of the number, Râwal Udai Sing, before named, who was Prince (Wali) of the country of Udaipûr, and had twelve thousand horse; and Rai Chanderbhân Chuhân, who had four thousand horse, and Mânikchand Chuhân, and Dilpat Rai, who were masters of four thousand horse, and Gangû, and Karm ...
Can you support your claim by historical evidences in support that Panna Dhai was a Gujjar woman. In case you are not able to find about Panna Dhai please quote any Gujjar women in history who serviced as the dhais ( Nurses). In case you are not able to find that please inform how many Gujjars girls opts for nursing profession even today?
I would not like to quote here since I am interested only about Gujjar History but you may find in some other communities where it was a common practice to send their females to rulers in whatever capacity they were accepted.
I am sure you will not find any evidence in support of the above. These stories are made during early days of british Empire to kill the History of Gujjars and this to kill the history of India ( Un divided India).
It is a well known policy to kill the history of the country you want to enslave and that is what the Britishers did.
They did not accept that Gujjar Pratihars were Gujjars. when they were made to accept they ( Britis regime except some of their historians) spread the rumors that Pratihars were Gujjars but their Imperial titles were fake. But the Gujjar History is like the Heat and Light of the Sun. If somebody would hide the heat of the Sun, the light will reveal the truth. Coversely if somebody want to cover the Light of the Sun the Heat will reavel the truth.
Dungar Pur was part of Bagar Region. ( Dungar means Jangal in the language of Bhils and Gonds and it named as Dungar Pur in their language like Bhilwara). Bagar, Jodhpur and Jaipur was ruled by Gujjars ( Meena as fuedoties) till at the time of invasion of Babar. Later these territories were usurped by the new rulers with support of the invaders.
See the example:
The Akbarnama of Abu Fazl, Volume 3, chpt. 74
One of the occurrences was the mission of Rajah Bîrbar and Rai Lankaran to Dûngarpûr. The brief account of this is that the Rajah of that place had from his good fortune petitioned through some intimates of the court that his daughter—who was one of the distinguished of the age for chastity and wisdom—might be included among the palatial servants (i.e., might be married to Akbar). In this way a rare jewel would find its proper place, and also a great help would be given to his (the Rajah's) relations. H.M. had regard to his loyalty and granted his request. Those two confidential servants were given leave in order that they might convey in a choice manner the secluded one to the harem of fortune.
Gujars and Yadavas were amongst the most ancient communities in Northenn India together with the tribal natives........!
The inclusion of Gujar girl as "Gayatri" or wife of Brahma during the grand ceremony at Pushkar (the only temple of Brahma in India) as per old mythological texts confirms it that Gujar is one of the most ancient community in comparision to other martial castes (read Rajput and Maratha ) who originated later as a result of different marriage alliances and series of process of "sanscritization"........! (Please see www.archive.org "rajputana district gazetteer" )
In Rajasthan, Gujars have great affection for Pushkar ....and the funeral of any Gujar belonging to Ajmer area essentially takes place only at Pushkar (a great tradition prevalent among Gujars only)....!
The story of Bagdawat (Ajmer-Bhilwara region) and God Dev-Narayan / the great phad tradition showing life of Bagdawat on cloth paintings for centuries (Govt of India , Ministry of culture official website www.ignca.nic.in ) confirm their rich tradition and life style....!
The Gujars of course were affected by the up and downs in historical context and also subdevided into subgroups......therefore you will find nomad Gujars in Kashmir & Rajasthan......Priest of temples in famous Nathdwara and Charbhuja ka Mandir.......Royal Gujars as Pratihars and Bhonsle and other small states......Dhabhai......Laur Gujar .....Khari Gujar.....and so on .......and in this way they also made new marriage / blood alliances to give rise new gotra / clan / castes......!
The process of differentiation / subdivision in a community and formation of new community is a continuous process due to various external factors.....Historical and socialogical texts are full of such mixing of blood and even people adopted false geneology to adopt and claim any title and gave land to brahmans to confirm their higher status in the society.......the process of "sanscritization" is prevalent even today to adopt false status.....!
Jeetu..: Ram Ram sab gurjar bhai logo ko!! halanki mein rajput hun but gurjaro ka bahut samman karta hun isliye aap logo ko ram ram kehne aa gaya! Mrigankaji ji ko kairana se jitana hai!
May 26, 2018 6:31:57 GMT 5.5
ram ram: Ram ram ji
Jul 12, 2018 11:34:28 GMT 5.5
vimalgurjarsmith: RAM RAM JI , I AM VIMAL GURJAR FROM SAHARANPUR , CURRENT LOCATION HARIDWAR UTTARAKHAND
Jul 20, 2018 17:36:39 GMT 5.5
sonu1983: NO Question answer these days on the Forum bhai log
Aug 16, 2018 12:42:57 GMT 5.5