Feb 25, 2010 at 10:19pm
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Post by Guest on Feb 25, 2010 at 10:19pm
There was a common say in Rajasthan that "Asli Rajput vo ha jisne Gujari ka dudh piya ho"...Its real meaning in ancient days was the prince who has been given birth by the Gujar queen of the king (there used to be several queens of different background/ castes....) is the actual worrior and " Rajputra" and naturally has claim on the rajya/ state .
By the passage of time the influential / kuleen / imperial families of Gurjars started calling themselves " Bad Gujar" or "Bade Gujar"which is still a respected clan among Rajputs.For example the king of Alwar was of "Bad Gujar" stock....Later these imperial families of Gujars differentiated themselves from the common Gujars by adopting different sirnames and thus a new community namely Rajpur emerged ........!!
On the same analogy the imperial Kunbi (kisaan) and other caste groups (including Gujars) of Maharashtra made subgroups of 96 kula / clans which later started calling themselves "Maratha" ........otherwise there was no community namely "Rajput & Maratha" in the old texts....!! The origin of "Patel" sirname in Gujrat can also be understood in this way...!
In later days the old saying "Asli Rajput vo jis ne Gujari ka Dudh piya ho" and " Gujari ko Dudh jaise Naahari (lioness) ka Dudh " was distorted and lost its real meaning and actual tradition and as a tokenism the ruler class started having Gujar woman to nurse the prince .....!! As a result a new subgroup "dhay-bhai (Dhawai) emerged among Gujars of Rajasthan ....they were having respectable position in the state, big haveli and large tract of lands . The Dhay-Bhai (Dhawai) were treated as brothers of kings being son of Dhai-maa. In Bharatpur, Udaipur, Karauli, Jaipur still have big havelis and the area is known as "Dhau pasa" . The Dhawai have similar gotra as other Gujars and inter marry with common Gujars also.
Mar 6, 2010 at 10:29am
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Post by Guest on Mar 6, 2010 at 10:29am
Dhabhai/ Dhawai is not a gotra among Gujars.....it was a title given to some Gujar families as detailed in my earlier post ....for example the Ex MLA / Minister & Rajyasabha MP Sh Shivcharan Singh ji from Karauli (Rajasthan) is "Dhabai" but his gotra is Bainsala.....! There are other live examples from Bharatpur / Udaipur... who have big havili and land even today.....!!
Panna Dhai was Gujar and the local historians / old folk stories / Geneology records & literature provide sufficient evidences on it....!
The Maratha King of Nagpur (Bhonsle) were of Gujar stock as Gujars were included among 5 (out of total 96 clan ) most imperial / royal clans of Maratha..........(see Nagpur Gazetteer official website of Maharashtra Government)
The origin of any new community like Rajput, Maratha, Patel is a result of complex socialogical / economical / agriculture / geographical / migration / marriage patterns for centuries.............we should not have biased attitude if we want to understand the same....!!
Mar 6, 2010 at 7:59pm
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Post by Guest on Mar 6, 2010 at 7:59pm
Gujars and Yadavas were amongst the most ancient communities in Northenn India together with the tribal natives........!
The inclusion of Gujar girl as "Gayatri" or wife of Brahma during the grand ceremony at Pushkar (the only temple of Brahma in India) as per old mythological texts confirms it that Gujar is one of the most ancient community in comparision to other martial castes (read Rajput and Maratha ) who originated later as a result of different marriage alliances and series of process of "sanscritization"........!
(Please see
www.archive.org "rajputana district gazetteer" )
In Rajasthan, Gujars have great affection for Pushkar ....and the funeral of any Gujar belonging to Ajmer area essentially takes place only at Pushkar (a great tradition prevalent among Gujars only)....!
The story of Bagdawat (Ajmer-Bhilwara region) and God Dev-Narayan / the great phad tradition showing life of Bagdawat on cloth paintings for centuries (Govt of India , Ministry of culture official website
www.ignca.nic.in ) confirm their rich tradition and life style....!
The Gujars of course were affected by the up and downs in historical context and also subdevided into subgroups......therefore you will find nomad Gujars in Kashmir & Rajasthan......Priest of temples in famous Nathdwara and Charbhuja ka Mandir.......Royal Gujars as Pratihars and Bhonsle and other small states......Dhabhai......Laur Gujar .....Khari Gujar.....and so on .......and in this way they also made new marriage / blood alliances to give rise new gotra / clan / castes......!
The process of differentiation / subdivision in a community and formation of new community is a continuous process due to various external factors.....Historical and socialogical texts are full of such mixing of blood and even people adopted false geneology to adopt and claim any title and gave land to brahmans to confirm their higher status in the society.......the process of "sanscritization" is prevalent even today to adopt false status.....!
Mar 8, 2010 at 7:24pm
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Post by Guest on Mar 8, 2010 at 7:24pm
Gotra / surname like Bhati, Chauhan, Tanwar, Panwar, Chandela, Pratihar were amongst the most royal gotras among Gujars....!
As per my understanding, gotra like Bhati, Chauhan, Tanwar, Panwar, Chandela, Parihar...etc are the most oldest gotra of Rajputs (in contrast to Rathore, Sisodiya, Kachchvaha, Shaktawat, Shekhawat etc which are quiet new) and there appears to be no dispute that Rajputs are a new / young term/ nomenclature / community / caste in coparision to Gujars ......!
So by simple logic it can be presumed that there is some continuation of blood lines between ancient Gujars and Rajputs ....whether you like it or not......!
Further origin of gotra / surnames like "hoon" & "kasana" among Gujars can only be explained if we assume that at some point of time there must be some mixing of blood between barbaric tribes like Hoon/ Kushan and Gujars......! The Hoon / Kushan and Gujar were all of different types in every manner but presence of Hoon and Kasana gotra among Gujars confirm this hypothesis....!
It appars that in the following link which was not accessible in full , the similar topics have been covered :
(Some Problems of Ancient Indian History. No. III: The Gurjara Clans (Concluded from p. 662, October, 1904)
A. F. Rudolf Hoernle
The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, (Jan., 1905), pp. 1-32
(article consists of 32 pages)
Published by: Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland
Stable URL:
www.jstor.org/stable/25208724 Mar 9, 2010 at 9:58pm
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Post by Guest on Mar 9, 2010 at 9:58pm
.....continued from Rajput as new caste...(a missing link after down fall of ancient royal clans of Gujars as a result of struggle of power and other external factors):
How can we explain presence of bargujar, hoon, chawra, Jat, Chauhan, Tanwar....etc as 36 royal clans of Rajputs.....
How the golden era of Gurjar pratihar and the Gurjar kings was transformed and occupied suddenly by new surnames without any background of their origin......
Mar 10, 2010 at 9:20pm
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Post by Guest on Mar 10, 2010 at 9:20pm
I recently accessed "Annals & Antiquities of Rajputana" (after getting comments from the learned viewers of this forum) by Col Tod, I found that at some place Col Tod has mentioned special devine connection between Rajput kings of Chittor (read Rana Sanga) and Gujar God Devnarayan particularly during war .........again Col Tod mentions some connection between Chauhan gotra / clan and "Char bhuja ka mandir"......this temple is under 100% control of Gujar priests for centuries........!
In my earlier submission I referred "SOME PROBLEMS OF ANCIENT INDIAN HISTORY,No. II, III: THE GURJARA EMPIRE.' and GURJARA CLAN By A. F. RUDOLF HOERNLE, PH.D., C.I.E. " wherein places like Chittor, Gwalior and particularly Rajputana was referred as Gujar strong hold and as their original place from where they expanded.....!
Col Tod at some places (like Dausa, Alwar)mentions presence of Bar Gujar kings during his visit / tour and even he goes saying that some Dhulerai (perhaps the first kachchvaha king of Jaipur) maried Gujar princess of near by thikana.......!
As per the text provided in Royal Asiatic Library (referred above):
The history of the Gurjara empire after Trilochanapala is* still very obscure. For myself, I am disposed to adopt Sir A. Cunningham's theory that the Kanauj imperial family retired to Delhi (A.S. Reports, i, 132 ff.). Kanauj, as we know from the Gaharwar charters (Ind. Ant., xviii, 13), was captured about 1050 A.D. by Chandradeva, the founder of the Gaharwar dynasty. As a result of the Gaharwar conquest, the reigning emperor appears to have retired to his north-western frontier province, to which henceforth the rule of his family, now known as the Tomara, was limited. This emperor was Anangapala, apparently a son of Trilochanapala. He may have reigned from 1040 to 1060 A.U. He seems to have retired to his stronghold on the Jamna, called Lalkot or the Red Fort. This happened, as recorded on the Iron Pillar (ibid., pp. 151, 174; Journ. K.A.S., 1897, p. 13) in 1052 A.D. Around Lalkot there sprang up the new royal residence of Delhi, about 1060 A.D. In their greatly reduced dominions the royal family continued to reign for about a century longer, till at last in 1170 A.D. the succession passed to the Chohan chief Prithiraj, the son-inlaw of the last Tomara king, Anangapala II, who had no male issue. Prithiraj, of course, considered himself as succeeding to the old imperial claims of his wife's family, claims which apparently had never been formally renounced. This fact explains Prithiraj's violent feuds with the Chandels of Bandelkhand (Paramardideva or Parmal) and the Gaharwars of Kanauj. It also explains how it came to pass that when in 1191-2 A.D. Muhammad Ghorl attacked India he met with no united resistance on the part of the Indian princes.
(My simple question is why the Tomar / Tanwar king Anangpal who is supposed to be the last imperial Gujar Pratihar chief and his son in law Prathviraj Chauhan suddenly stops calling themselves as Gurjar king and why Chand bar dai who was his close friend made such mistakes....I really doubt whether all texts written there after including those by the foreign writers were prejudiced against Gurjars....
)
I leave it to learned viewers of this forum how they explain these links between the two communities presently known as Gujar and Rajput.....!
Can i dare to repeat my initial submission with some corrections:
".......By the passage of time the influential / kuleen / imperial families of Gurjars started calling themselves " Bad Gujar" or started giving more weightage / publicity to their respective clans rather than the word “Gurjars” due to one or the other reason.......Later these imperial families of Gujars differentiated themselves from the common Gujars by adopting different surnames and thus a new community namely Rajput emerged with some more additions of subgroups from different streams........!!
On the same analogy the imperial Kunbi (kisaan) and other caste groups (including Gujars) of Maharashtra made subgroups of 96 kula / clans which later started calling themselves "Maratha" ........otherwise there was no community namely "Rajput & Maratha" in the old texts....!! The origin of "Patel" surname in Gujrat can also be understood in this way...!"
The interested viewers may like to see following link on Google to understand relation between Gurjars and Rajputs:
archive.org/stream/.../journalroyalasi09irelgoog_djvu.txt
