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Post by AP Singh on May 20, 2008 18:02:02 GMT 5.5
Dear A.P.Singh, You are always wonderful and full of knowledge.I become to know now so many new things which I not know in the past but you still not answers my questions with references like the questions (1)Prithvi had united a khastrya force by the name of Gurjar Mandal.(2)In which stone inscription any chauhan ruler is written as Gurjar or Gurjareshwar.(3)Are you sure that Chauhans is not a branch of Gurjar Pratihars.And in the end I also request to Ashok Harsana to answer my questions and any kind of information about Chauhans and Mr.A.P.Singh please some more because your answers are giving new angle to my mind.(God bless you) Dear Shahzada, You may have to work on the following information which you will find my earlier posts at all empire.com under the thread of Army size, Royal Gurjars, Gujjar Website, and a thread related tp persian empire. 1. After the defeat of Gujjars at the hands of Huns the Leva ( also called Loh, Lor, Leve, the descendents of Loh, the eledest son of lord Rama), settled in Gujrat. Since Kushans ( the rulers at the time of defeat at the hands of Huns) did not show much resistance it were Levas who were elected the Gurjareshawar and Kushans ( kasanas) had to accept a lower seat among the Gujjars. The Gurjar King Vasudeva Chauhan is written as Gurjareshwar in one poetry book of that time. Hence the Gujjar Chahans should be Leva Gujjars. 2. It was during the time of Vasudeva Chauhan that Kabul went out of control of Gujjars to Chach ( a brahmin ) since queen of Sahsi aligned with this Brahmin and got her husband killed. dahir was born to this Brahmin and due to his low birth is reffered as shutolo ( by Huentsang) and not a brahmin. . Dahir not only married his own sister but also made the conditions of his Jats and Med Generals so pathetic that these clans sided with Muhammad Bin Kasim. These people were lured by his father Chach and his mother by paying them handsomely and that was reason how the army sent by Vasudeva Chauhan from present day Gujarat was defeated by Chach and the mother of Dahir. Due to this new alliance Kasim found Dahir was helpless and was thus defeated and Gujjars lost control of Kabul. After this win the Arabs even started braving to invade the main Gujjar kingdoms of that time in Gujarrat and Malwa and at this time Nagabhatta ( of Gurjar Pratihar clan, the decsendents of Laxmana) took command of Gujjars and Gujjar Chauhan became his fuedatory kings. 3. Please read Phads of God Dev Narayan who was born in a Gujjar Chauhan family and Mandal, his grand father was the real rael brother of Chauhan king Beesal Dev Chauan. This story is transferred among Gujjars from generation to generation to generation and is authentic source of information. 4. Gujjars were highest caste among hindus. You may see my earlier posts elesewhere. This is also proved by Nasal index given at the site of Parvinder Singh Khari, the Great. He is great because Kahris must be from Kushan branch of Gujjar and during their empire the Gujjars had the biggest empire up to present Georgia. ( Geaogia is Gurjara only writeen in persian language).All the kings were chosen from thios caste and Chuahans were one of them. Due to this reason Gujjars never married others. The grand mother of Prathviraj Chauhan was the daughter of Gujjar king Sid Rae Solanki of Patan. The wife of Prithviraj Chauan was Gujar gilr of Dhama gotra. This is another link you will have to work. 5. Ferrista has written that after the fall of Prithvi Raj Chauhan , it was some Gola ( illegitimate son ) was given the throne of Ajmer since he entertained Kutubudin Aiabk, a slave of Ghori, with Munnawar Pyala and females. You may read about Munawwar Pyala in the works of col Todd, the biggest name in manipulating the histoty of India for the gains of British Empire. 6. The stone inscritption of Gujjar Chauhan empire lay buried in the Dargah of Chishti, who was nothing but an informer of Ghori earlier. One may have take these stones out and install them from right side of it, which were revered by Aibak. I would write more later. Regards. |
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Post by AP Singh on May 31, 2008 15:44:48 GMT 5.5
As posted on allempires.com today.
I am also surprised why the descendents of the Mughal Empire are not occupieng the Red Fort in Delhi or Agra today, whereas the descendents of their servants for example like the scions of Jaipur and Jodhpur are holding their big palaces and properties?
I am also looking for any historical reference of these two presently very rich and earstwhile servants of Mughal Empire about any of their fight if they had with the Babar, the founder of Mughal Empire in India.
Similarly I am also looking for any historical reference of any of the fight of Sindhias ( The ancestors of Vasundhara Raje, the present CM of Rajasthan) with the People of Satara like Shivaji and Pratao Rao who revolted against Mughal Emperor and defeated his armies at Salher at the time of building of Maratha Empire. To the best of my knowledge the first Sindhia ( the father of Mahadji Sindhia) was hired to take care of shoes of Balaji Rao Peshwa. Peshwas were the ministers of Maratha Empire who bacame ruler later, since the children of Shivaji were disabled by Aurangjeb to rule and the sons of Pratap Rao were converted to Islam.
Peshawas were not like Shivaji who used to treat women with respect like his mother. It is said the once when Balaji Rao Peshwas was visiting a dance bar, his shoes were taken care well by first Sindhia of Marathe Sindhia Kingdom. Rest is history when Mahadji Sindhia made all these eartwhile vassals of Mughal Empire obey his commands.
I think since India was a slave country during and after the Mughal Empire, and it is the most inferior class of people who prospered during this period. That is the reason why Bitishers used to call at some places that the "Indians and dogs are not allowed". This was the fact because they were surrounded by mostly these inferor people of India who were like dogs and the dogs are very faithful animals others but keep barking at their own people.
To go further one may analyse the present status of hindu servants and their tribe, of the Mughal Emperor Akbar and one will find all of them in good health today, since every one of then joined their new master, the britishers. Some others like Sindhias who were left to take the advantage during Mughal rule, also joined them and are prosperous today.
Also no honourable man specifically of Hindu religion could serve the Akbar since it was so insulting that only lowest of the lowest could serve under him. Toder Mal a Kahtri asked voluntary retirement two times. Surjan Singh Chauhan committed suicide. Birbal managed to serve with dignity, being a clever man but his son also committed sucide later.
That may be the reason many honourable people of India might have moved to jungles and mostly areas like hills which inaccessable to Mughal forces.
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Post by Ashok Harsana on Jun 2, 2008 10:24:03 GMT 5.5
Very true, Any of the community which shined under the britishers and Moghals were simply the betrayers, the true patriots had to vacant their land and properties and were awarded as the criminal tribe status. Regards Ashok Harsana gurjar.co.nr |
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Post by AP Singh on Jun 3, 2008 11:37:46 GMT 5.5
During the Muslim invasions and later by the Britishers it had become a practice to kill Gujjars to terrorise others populations of India, since it was considered best by them to beat the Imperials first and as a result others will start behaving obediently.
Here is one example how Babar terrorised the local populace of India by killing Gujjars. He captured so many Mandars ( mainly children and woman) and taken to Kabul and that is the reason many of the Mandars in Pakistan does not even know that they have Gujjar Pratihars Imperial Heritage since no male adult was left alive.
"It was said that when in the cold season of 1528-9 , the Mandahars (Also written as Mandar is a celebrated gotra of Gujjars who are said to be the direct descendent of Gujjar Pratihars of Mandwar or Mandor and you may find millions of Gujjar Mandahars in and around Delhi) of the area of north of Delhi plundered villages and then defeated Babur’s forces to the number of 3000 men, a force of consisting of 4000 of cavalry and several elephants was sent against them, their settlement was razed to the ground.
According to Ahmad Yadgar “ the male Mandars were half buried in the ground and were shot to death to arrows.Abul Fazl quoted as a point about which both sound jurists and innovators are agreed , the opinion that the binding, killing or striking (of) the haughty and the chastising (of) the stiff necked are the part of struggle for empire."
Please the Page 10 of “Naukar, Rajput & Sepoy” The ethno-history of the Military Labour Market in Hindustan, 1450-1850 by Dirk H.A. Koeff University of Leiden for further reading.
See the fact recorded by Mr.H.C. Williams in the Gazetteer of Dehra Dun of 1890 that how the britishers targeted Gujjars to tell others to bahave.
During the erstwhile British regime. During the middle of the 19th century a Gujjar called Kalua of , whose had terrorised the British forces for years by his constant attacks upon them. He did not trouble the local Indians but was a constant threat to the British forces. Such was the fear the British had of him that when finally he was captured his head was severed and stuck on a pole outside the jail for a month as an abject lesson to the local population not to oppose their 'masters'. This was before the first war of independence or as the Britishers preferred to call it 'the sepoy mutiny'. As a matter of fact Kalua was one of the first freedom fighters of the country.
Note: Real name Kalyan Singh, one of the General of Gujjar Parmar kingdom of Landhora. The Legent Yog Raj Singh was his ancestor who chased Amir Taimur in 1398, up to Ambala and did not allow him to loot this part of country.
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Post by AP Singh on Jun 3, 2008 11:41:05 GMT 5.5
During the Muslim invasions and later by the Britishers it had become a practice to kill Gujjars to terrorise others populations of India, since it was considered best by them to beat the Imperials first and as a result others will start behaving obediently.
Here is one example how Babar terrorised the local populace of India by killing Gujjars. He captured so many Mandars ( mainly children and woman) and taken to Kabul and that is the reason many of the Mandars in Pakistan does not even know that they have Gujjar Pratihars Imperial Heritage since no male adult was left alive.
"It was said that when in the cold season of 1528-9 , the Mandahars (Also written as Mandar is a celebrated gotra of Gujjars who are said to be the direct descendent of Gujjar Pratihars of Mandwar or Mandor and you may find millions of Gujjar Mandahars in and around Delhi) of the area of north of Delhi plundered villages and then defeated Babur’s forces to the number of 3000 men, a force of consisting of 4000 of cavalry and several elephants was sent against them, their settlement was razed to the ground.
According to Ahmad Yadgar “ the male Mandars were half buried in the ground and were shot to death to arrows.Abul Fazl quoted as a point about which both sound jurists and innovators are agreed , the opinion that the binding, killing or striking (of) the haughty and the chastising (of) the stiff necked are the part of struggle for empire."
Please the Page 10 of “Naukar, Rajput & Sepoy” The ethno-history of the Military Labour Market in Hindustan, 1450-1850 by Dirk H.A. Koeff University of Leiden for further reading.
See the fact recorded by Mr.H.C. Williams in the Gazetteer of Dehra Dun of 1890 that how the britishers targeted Gujjars to tell others to bahave.
During the erstwhile British regime. During the middle of the 19th century a Gujjar called Kalua of , whose had terrorised the British forces for years by his constant attacks upon them. He did not trouble the local Indians but was a constant threat to the British forces. Such was the fear the British had of him that when finally he was captured his head was severed and stuck on a pole outside the jail for a month as an abject lesson to the local population not to oppose their 'masters'. This was before the first war of independence or as the Britishers preferred to call it 'the sepoy mutiny'. As a matter of fact Kalua was one of the first freedom fighters of the country.
Note: Real name Kalyan Singh, one of the General of Gujjar Parmar kingdom of Landhora. The Legent Yog Raj Singh was his ancestor who chased Amir Taimur in 1398, up to Ambala and did not allow him to loot this part of country.
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Post by Gorsi Shahzada on Jun 13, 2008 23:14:48 GMT 5.5
Dear A.P.Singh, Thanks again for such good information but I want some more from you.Chief Minister of Rajasthan Vasundhra is a sindhia marathe then why she call herself a rajput.I recenly know that marathas also call themselves rajput.Are not they I mean maratha is a separate community.Please write some more about Chauhans some body told me that Delhi Court(I not know High Court or Superme Court) have given the decission that REAL ROYAL CHAUHAN ARE GUJJARS.What are tanwars and about Gujri Mahal.Rajut says that just queen was a Gujjar?Gujjari or Gurjari is an adjective like any who belongs to GUJJAR is called as Gujri rag,gujri dress,gujri breslet,gujri aan,baan.aur shan etc.
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Post by Gorsi Shahzada on Jun 13, 2008 23:20:45 GMT 5.5
MR.ASHOK HARSANA, ARE YOU SO MUCH BUSY YOU NOT EVEN HAVE TIME TO REPLY ONCE.Please write something about chauhan Gujjars and please also write some thing about rajasthan issue.
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Post by AP Singh on Jun 14, 2008 14:05:33 GMT 5.5
Dear Shahzada,
Our History ( Our means undivided India, including present day India, Pakistan, Afghanistan) is written by our enemies and to divide the people of India by making it disputable they have ascribed the history Gujjars to others. During the 500 years of slavery period ( Mughal and British period) many communities suffered a lot whereas some other communities improved their positions. It does not need to be an Einstien to conclude that what kind of people can prosper during slavery of their country.
Sindihias were nowhere during the rise of Maratha power in Satara district which is dominated by Gujjars. It was Shivaji Bainsla and Pratap Rao Gujjars who defeated to army of Mughals first time at salher. It is said the first Sindhia joined the services Balaji Rao Peshwa, the Brahmins Ministers of Maratha empire to take care of his shoes. Sindhia are said to a cotton weaving community and are not rajputs. Gujar and one of their gotra baislas are classified among top 5 communities out of 96 clans of Marathas. Later during British period the Sindhias consolidated their position by aligning with them.
Similarly if you read Babar Nama you will find the mention of the people anyweher in the fight who prospered during Mughal period.
In this fight Raja Udai Singh, a Nagde Gujjar, the Wali of Udai Pur, Raja Ratan Singh, a Salumber Gujjar sacrificed their life. The descendents of Udai Singh Nagde later established themselves as the Raja of parikshat Garh at the time of downfall of the Mughals. The descendents of Raja Ratan Singh were converted to Muslims and many of them are in pakistan today.
Col Todd had to lot of pain hide the truth about Gujjar Raja Udai Singh Nagde that he was not Raja of Bagad and founder of Udai Pur and was actually a king of Dungar Pur. It is wrong since i Akbar Nama there was no kingdom at Dungar Pur and the it is written that the Jamindar of Dungar Pur requested Akber to take his daughter as bride but Akber kept him waiting for a considerable very long period.
Later the Rana Udai Singh of Chittor found a refuge at Udai Pur.
I would like to make a point that there were three places of strateging imporatnce during Gujjar Empire.
1. Swat Area which is stiil dominated by Gujjars.
2. Chambal Valley which is still dominated by Gujjars and where the Chandella Gujjars defeated the armies of Gaznavi.
3. Nagda Area including Udai Pur.
The Gujjars of Swat and Chambal valley could not be suppressed even during Mughal and British period. Since Udai Pur was vacated by Nagde Gujjars since Raja Udai Singh sacrificed his life against Babar in Khanwa near Bayana and his forces did not return to Udai Pur and settled in in present day Haryana and western part of UP and founded the new kingdom at Parikshat Garh and this fort was converted to a Police station and many Gujjars were hanged.
It was the area Nagda ( Nag-raha, a serpentine way among the hills where the Gujjars used to collect the tax for their Gujjar pratihar Empire) which gave safe protection to Rana Pratap later to fight the might of Babar.
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Post by AP Singh on Jun 14, 2008 14:47:30 GMT 5.5
Dear Shahzada,
You may have some questions which have not asked but since my childhood I had the curiosity to know the truth. I am writing here the conclusion based on my knowledge about other clan like Mongols and their habits and history of Gujjars
1. Why The Gujjars are the Milkman.
2. Why The Gujjars used to hide thier caste and other identities.
The answer for the first question is that Gujjars were never farmers and historical evidences clarify the truth that they were forced in to farmimg during Mughal period. Gujjars are called to be pastoral tribe who are expert in taking care of animals.
During the days of Gujjar Empire the job of cavalry was to take care of horses and train them. There used exist a man animal relationship to take the best out of animals, like the horses, during war and to take the best food like milk during peace time to gain strength for war. If you visit the Gujjars living on top hills and are isolted from the main Gujjar stock they still observe Syapa ( to feel sad) on the death of their animals.
That is the reason the Gujjars are milkman today. For that reason one may analyse the milk supply of China which from the Mongolia and Mongols were also cavaliers like Gujjars. It is very difficult to get a good bottle of milk in southern China. Hence the Gujjars and Mongols are milkmen today for the same reason and they should not feel ashamed of it. Turks got better in the area of cavelry after the Mongol blood was infuced among them and babar was half Mongolian, from mothers side. Earlier Mongols were Budhist till the time of Halaku ( the grandson of Changez Khan) and that halaku was so notorious that it is said he killed 60 million of muslims in a single during one of raids at Baghdad. This was possible in those days only on the power of their cavelry.
The answer of the second is that the Gujjars were particularly targeted and killed during Mughal empire and British period and that was the time they started hidinh their identities. That is also the reason why some Gujjars in present day maharashtra started calling themselves as Kunbi but revealed later that they are actually Gujjars.
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Post by Amit gujjar on Jun 15, 2008 12:42:01 GMT 5.5
hello Ap singh ji
kya ye sahi hai ki delhi high court ne ye kaha hai ki royal chouhan
gujjar the.please reply
amit gujjar
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