|
|
Post by Krishan Kumar Gurjar - Lohmod on Jul 2, 2010 10:18:30 GMT 5.5
Ashok Bhai 100% agreed with reply No. # 45
|
|
|
|
Post by ravikasana on Jul 4, 2010 7:00:22 GMT 5.5
Ram Ram to all my Gurjar brothers,
I salute to all my bhai ,(Special thanks to Krishan Kr.Lohmod ji,Naresh Gujjar,Gaurav Rousa) for sharing their valuable view on this sensitive issue
Regards
Ravi Kasana
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardcore Gujjar on Jul 4, 2010 8:03:26 GMT 5.5
back again,
Anyone who thinks that hnour killing is wrong should try to read the history of Gujjar community.
When other Kshatriya (Marshall) clans like rajputs, jats and marathas preferred to side with the British Rulers (during 17th and 18th centuries), and got regiments, titles and petty kingdoms in rewards, WE THE GUJJARS opted to die or run away to take shelter in foot-hills. We left our established kingdoms, villages, lands and assets just to save the PRIDE.
Everybody in India knows that other Kshatiryas castes, wo submiited themselves to British rulers, had to accept the insulting act "Preman Octe" (pre Man Act) which holds that the bride married to an indian sunbordinate had to sleep with his British officer for the first night. Most of the marshall clans WHICH HAS A HIGH SOCIAL STANDING TODAY compromised their honour by sharing their brides, sisters or daughters with English officers.
BUT Gujjars strongly defied this ACT. They preferred to leave everything they possesed. They were discirminated as a Cirminal tribe and were cut off from the main stream of Indian society, were labeled as Thieves and Dacoits, had to stay away from education until 1952.
NOW COULD ANYONE ON THIS FORUM, (NCLUDING THE ADMINS, ASHOK HARSHANA AND AP SINGH) TELL ME ABOUT THE ABOVE FACTS. ISNT IT TRUE? DIDNT IT HAPPEN IN PAST? DIDNT WE LEAVE EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR DIGNITY, PRIDE AND HONOUR? THEN WHY A FEW WESTERNIZED INDIANS (ARE THEY INDIANS) ARE REFUTING HONOUR KILLING ?
HONOUR IS SOMETHING WHICH CAN NOT BE EARNED AGAINOR REGENERATED, ONCE ITS GONE ITS ALL OVER FOR EVER.
JUST IMAGINE THE TIME BEFORE 1947, IF ALL OF US HAD TAKEN BIRTH BEFORE 1947, THEN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST HONOUR KILLING MUST HAD BEEN STANDING WITH THE BRITISHERS, AND THE ONES WHO ARE WITHSTAND WITH IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR PRIDE AND FOR THEIR COUNTRY.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ashok Harsana on Jul 4, 2010 8:56:34 GMT 5.5
Mr. Hardcore Gujjar,
[/quote]
1. You are requested to not to use any particular community's name (jats, Rajputs etc.) as people may find it derogatory and we should not indulge in any such behaviour.
[/quote]
2. Information you provided is almost correct, though i have no idea about the act you mentioned. In fact this act was forcefully applied to Irish people by English King Edword-1.
3. There is no way you can reach at a decesion by yourself about the choice made by a particular person in any given situation. For example: I know many people who talk too much, but when it comes to action, they are nowhere. So you can not judge someone by his/her opinion in one particular case.
[/quote]
4. There are other ways we are loosing our pride. We should better concentrate on those rather than taking any HARDCORE step i.e. like killing our own children.
|
|
|
|
Post by AP Singh on Jul 5, 2010 16:54:33 GMT 5.5
back again, NOW COULD ANYONE ON THIS FORUM, (NCLUDING THE ADMINS, ASHOK HARSHANA AND AP SINGH) TELL ME ABOUT THE ABOVE FACTS. ISNT IT TRUE? DIDNT IT HAPPEN IN PAST? DIDNT WE ) ARE REFUTING HONOUR KILLEAVE EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR DIGNITY, PRIDE AND HONOUR? THEN WHY A FEW WESTERNIZED INDIANS (ARE THEY INDIANSLING ? Dear Hardcore Gujjar, The official reports of 1857 revolt are made by the historians of slavery period and what we read today is not the true reports of the events. The main events and the facts of the revolt of 1857 are as follows: 1. It was mostly a Gujjar revolt from Meerut. Mangal Pandey was not even in Meerut on the day of revolt. 2. Parikshat Garh fort of Gujjars ( Gujjars of Nagar Gotra) were dismantled after the revolt was crushed. 2. Dhan Singh Kotwal was the leader of the revolt. He was a Gujjar of Chaprana Gotra and at the time of revolt, the Shahar Kotwal of Meerut city. His family was from no ordinary family but were relatives to the rulers of Parikashat state and also used to provide the support to the state with five hundred of cavaliers with them. 3. His counterpart in Delhi was the grandfather of our first prime minister of India, late Shri Jawaharlal Nehru. Probably, his grand father supported the Britishers out of fear and he is said to have had a deep sympathy for the brave Gujjars. He is said to have saved many a few Gujjar villages from uprooting around Delhi after thr revolt was crushed. 4. Mangal Pandey is an accidental hero and actually he was not even in Meerut on the day of revolt. 5. 1857 revolt in fact was the first War of Independence. Had it not been there, there would not have been second war of Independence? It was the 1857 revolt which forced the Hon'able Queen of England to take the command of India's operations ditectly under her scontrol and certainly our country got the better treatment for the time to follow and subsequently was freed from the slavery. Unfortunately part of ot was that real heors mostly Gujjars lost many lives and all their properties. It was also very unfortunate that most of people who enjoyed the fruits of this better governance after the revolt were those who abused their own mothers (or motherland) and always ever remained faithful to the Britishers. 6. Even after the independence, the rules for selection to superior civil services were framed by the these very people who served the Britishers earlier and as a result few people from the rural background were selected in IAS and IPS. In army, where these people or the descendents of these people, did not prefer to go, no such hard rules were famed and as result many Gujjars joined armed forces and subsequently won many battles, the most admired battles, and thus received the great Honour for their families, their community and their country. Some of them are as follows: 1. Brigadier Kuldip Singh Chandpuri, MVC. ( A Gujjar of Meelu Gotra and Sunny Deol played his role in the film Border). 2. Capt Madan Chauhan, VC ( Gujjar of Chauhan Gotra) 3. Lt. Bharat Singh Kasana ( Gujjar of Kasana Gotra). 4. Rifleman Sanjay Kumar, PVC ( Kargil). He is a Gujjar of Kalas Gotra. Dhappe, Devra, Khalas, Khalchyan and Chauhan belong to one original gotra among Gujjars. The Britishers banned the recruitment of Gujjars in army. It was only in the second world war they have lifted this ban and some people from the community joined the British army. Kamal Ram ( a Gujjar of Harshana gotra ) was one such soldier from Sawai Madhopur of Rajasthan. The Britishers were ashtonished about his fearlessness when he volunteered to go all alone to achieve almost the impossible task. They were even more surprised when he won that most admired battle and returned alive. He was only 19 year old that time and won the most admired Victoria Corss. His videos can bee seen at youtube. |
|
|
|
Post by AP Singh on Jul 5, 2010 17:18:12 GMT 5.5
|
|
|
|
Post by AP Singh on Jul 5, 2010 17:38:51 GMT 5.5
See the description of the bravery of this 19 year old Gujjar boy.
It was a Gujjar Company and Major Gardhari Singh was also a Gujjar from Haryana ( Faridabad District). Gujjar were recruited in Punjab Regimentunder British rule. Nishane Haider of Pakistan, Major Tufail, a Gujjar of Bajjad gotra), belonged to this regiment of undivided India. www.ourstory.info/library/4-ww2/Tiger/triumphs04.html"B" and "C" Companies crossed the river, and came forward to make good the gains. With Major Wright missing, Subedar Sumera Ram took command of "B" Company and Major Gardhari Singh assumed overall command of the assault. The advance was pinned down by a sleet of fire from front and flanks. Movement meant death, until the shining heroism of young Kamal Ram saved the day. This nineteen-year-old sepoy of Karauli State, in action for the first time, crouched near his Company Commander when the machine-guns swept the Punjabis to the ground. A gun firing from the right flank was particularly vexatious. The officer called for a volunteer to deal with it. Kamal Ram crawled through the wire and leapt upon the gun crew single-handed. He shot the gunner and bayoneted his feeder, swinging about to kill a German officer who sprang at him from a slit trench firing a pistol. With the post silenced he pressed on. Having sniped the gunner of a second nest, he bombed the remainder of the crew into submission. Together with a havildar he attacked a third machine-gun post and dealt with it in a similar fashion. The line was open. The Punjabis moved forward to secure their objective. Later, in a forward reconnaissance, Kamal Ram wiped out a fourth machinegun nest---an unsurpassed day's work which earned this gallant youngster the Victoria Cross.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ravi Kasana on Jul 5, 2010 19:24:56 GMT 5.5
Ram Ram to all my Gurjar brothers,
Plz Share your valuable view on this sensitive issue …these views definitely bring positive & fruitful outcome in the perception of young youth who r tryies to be modern under the layer of western culture & strongly condemn that these media & Govt are totally against ( Gurjar Community) our rituals & traditions that we r following since this world came into existence. And I am agree that these laws that been formulated are for Societies & not the societies for the law. Its obvious where ppl like our P.M.Manmohan Singh who mostly spent his time abroad with foreigners definitely a western touch have come in his thinking & Soniya Gandhi who are from foreign origin who does not know about the strong traditions that we are following here in india ..Thats why in our country laws such as I.P.C. 377 has been passed is that justified to a country where Supreme Power like Shri Ram or Seeta Ji have taken Birth ..By this all ill treatment that been happening in india I am strongly feeling absence of our Late Prime Mininster “ Shri Lal Bahadur Shastry ji & Late Shri Vallabh Bhai Patel Ji” “Agar Aaj wo Hote To Humare Desh Ki Tasveer Hi Kuch or Hoti “
At this point of inctence I remembering one thing in Hindi that :
जब हमारा देश आजाद हो गया तो नेहरु ने आपने सलाहकार से पुछा की अब में किया करू तो उसने जवाब दियाकी यदि तुम भारत पर राज करना चाहते हो तो सबसे पहले गुर्जर समाज को ऐसा बना दो जिस तरह कि भेस जो झोड़ में मस्त होकर पड़ी रहती हँ और जब हमे जरूरत होती हँ घास या रोटी देखाकर बहार बुला लेते हँ .यदि गुर्जर आगे आ गए शिक्षा के मामले में और केवल 20% , तो तुम राज नहीं कर पाओगे भारत पर और यही हुआ के हमारी गुर्जर कम्युनिटी के साथ अब तक पक्षपात होता आ रहा हँ .
This is the treatment that we are getting after indepence to till date thats why our ppl are in such a deterioratory position .These media ‘s ppl all r Bihari s & Punjabis who doesn’t have any emotion or feeling towards their honour these ppl want success at any cost they r such ppl who grab the opportunities by auction of their sisters & doughters…so they don’t know what the definition of Honour & Prestige is for some one.
Dosto ppl saying these honour killing shud be stop & i am too in favour that such killing shud be stopped.But why these girls & boys plays with the honour of their community ,their parents........Parents who do hard core struggle in their life for their children & these children openly auction their parents honour & do marriage after running up from home, Is it good for one's prestige .so is that justified, the boy or girl who dont have feeling or emotion towards their community & parents, Then why we are favouring them. Respect,Prestige , Honour & Pride are Four things on which a man life stands nothing left after them ..so Boy or Girl who do indulge in such thing should deal like the way it happened now a days.
Here i am totaly agree with mr.krishan lohmod Bhaiya that-If we will look in the past?
When Raavan picked Sita with force, Lord Rama killed Raavan in Ramayana and abdicated Devi Sita too, to keep his honor in the Society ( and that Rama, the Lord is still worship by the people)
& same thing is repeated in Mahabharta where Draupadi cheer haran cost Kaurvas to their Life ,Here himself Lord Krishna Helps Pandavas to take the revenge from kauravas who plays with the honour of Pandavas..
If Rama & Lord Krishna had not done this will he be worshiped ? & if the same thing done by our brother thn how it can be termed as crime ?
I strongly termed Ankit & Manjeet to be Kalyugi Ram & Krishna & Salute them for showing this world that Pride is more important than life for Gurjars.
Many of my friends too oppose my views who r cover up with a western layer , if they sit with samaj only thn they better realise the values of prestige & honour one shud get after a hard core struggle ..so i wud say "This (killing) is not at all wrong. What is wrong in it? Murder is wrong but this (killing) is socially the best thing that has been done. This cannot be termed as wrong,"
In end i wud repeat the words of our Gurjar Bhai shri Naresh Gurjar-
WELLDONE ANKIT AND MANDEEP GUJJAR. GUJJAR COMMUNITY WILL ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SACRIFICE FOR AGES.
ANYONE WHO THINKS I AM BEING A HARDLINER SHOULD IMAGINE THE MENTAL TORTURE SUFFERED BY THESE TWO GUYS. IF I HAD BEEN IN THAT SITUATION, I MUST HAD DONE THE SAME THING
Regards
Ravi Kasana
Vill & Post- Jawli
Btec-Mechanical
MBA-International Bussiness
|
|
|
|
Post by Sheel Gurjar on Jul 6, 2010 0:40:33 GMT 5.5
Dear Friends, This is w.r.t. Honour Killing. Being a gurjar blogger myself, I've also created a similar post with same title at my blog. But, here I'm not advertising for that. One member of this forum Mr. Ravi Kasana is misusing Ashok Harsana's and some other member's name. He is commenting on my blog anonymously + in Ashok Harsana's name + in some other member's name. I've been reading this blog for quite a long time. I know Ashok Harsana can't do this. I know Ashok Harsana is matured enough not to write or abuse me at my blog anonymously, and or in anybody else's name. He is a reputed personality among us gurjars. I've a great respect for Ashok Harsana. When I started my blog, I had mentioned Ashok Harsana's blog address in my very first post & I had also written, " This is very active, informative and lovely blog. Salaam to bhai Ashok Harsana" This post was created on 16th May 2010 at my blog. On a single day within one hour, I received 27 comments from Ravi Kasana. All of them are copied & pasted from this blog of Ashok Harsana. Through this forum, I would like to ask Ravi Kasana, why is he doing this? If he wants to convey some message to me, he should have the courage to come in open. He should have the courage to write to me directly in his name. Why is he using Ashok Harsana's & a few other member's name? To impress me or to malign their reputation? I have not deleted his 27 stolen comments so far - if Ashok Harsana & other members would like to see them, it would be my pleasure..!! I will also not publish these comments as they are not original. These comments are from: Ms. Verma, Krishan Kr. Lohmod, Naresh Bhati, Ashok Harsana, A.P. Singh, Amit Singh Bhati, Gaurav Rousa, Tapan Bhati & others. All of the names I mentioned above might be reading this comment now and they know they have never posted a comment on my blog. Ravi Kasana aap logon ke kandhey par bandook rakh kar nishana laga raha hai..!! I ask all of you guys, Is it fair? What Ravi Kasana is doing is justifiable? Honour Killing is just another topic. Whether we agree to it or we oppose it, is a point of healthy discussion, where we can only share our thoughts. We can not make anybody agree to our point by force or by filthy ways like Ravi Kasana is doing. For all of you who have not visited my blog, I must say, I have never written I am in favour of intercaste marriage. And same gotra marriage is a sin as per my perception. But, I have mentioned clearly that I am against killings, be it honour killing..!! A message rather a request to you Mr. Ravi Kasana - Please stop this filth..!! No body is going to gain out of it, not even you. So please act with your age, be matured. And finally to this forum I would say sorry if I have hurt the feelings of anybody. If it happened, believe me it is unintentional. I request all of you to atleast think what Ravi Kasana is doing? Is it justifiable? Is he doing right by stealing your name & comments from Ashok Harsana's blog & posting them on mine? You decide. I will respect your decision. Regards, sheel gurjar sheelgurjar.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
Post by ravikasana on Jul 6, 2010 10:10:55 GMT 5.5
BHai Ashok Harshana ji, i am bit confuse over writing of Mr. Sheel Gurjar what he had written about me. mr sheel had too started his blog on this sensitvie issue named "Honour killing" he showed his favourness that these killing shud not be happened which is only one side of a coin but when i have tryied to show another side of a coin by expressing my views against his way of thinking that these killing shud be justified to save the honour of our community & Mr Sheel Gurjar had showed his rudeness over this by writing against me....
In order to make him understand,Parllel to my views i have taken some of the comments that been used in your blog that r favouring these social killing. with name of the writer of that comments including your name too : but it doesnt mean that i am misusing the name of our Gurjar bhai .. to expand the views of our Gurjar brother with thier name i have pasted their comment in Mr sheel ;s blog. yes if i wud used my name with the comments thn it wud not be lawfull ( just like this way i hav expresed my brother views-Everything comes with a price tag. Same is the case with development. The negative change in the new generation is the price we Gujjars are paying as the cost of this development
Ashok Harshana)
Before commenting them to mr. Sheel Gurjar i have already conveyed him that i have taken these comments with their writer 's name from Ashok Bhai 's site to show mr Sheel Gurjar that what people think abt this honour killling on ashok Bhai 's blog.
So mr Sheel i wud like to conveyed you with regard that you can not termed it to be "Steal" - Steal stands when i used our Gurjar brother 's comments with my name..
(For your info mr Sheel ..Agar mujhe aisa karna hota to mein khulke Apne naam ke saath apke saamne nahi aata so its unfair for me that i m not coming openly coz I hav done nothing wrong).
I got lough over people (like mr Sheel Gurjar ) who have started their blogs for the the healthy discussion for the upliftment of the Gurjar community but they dont want to see the another side of a coin that would also exist thats the reason why mr Sheel had not approved any of the comments that goes against his idea of thinking.
So in end i hav leaved this matter over to Bhai Ashok & the member of Ashok Harshana proboard..whatever they decide i obey them to all...But mr. Sheel Gurjar if they agree than be prepared that you must have to published all the left comments to your blog....
Regards
Ravi Kasana
Vill & Post- Jawli
|
|
