gotra history

[AP Singh]

Apr 10, 2010 17:27:53 GMT 5.5 Ashok Harsana said:

Hello AP bhai saab,

Apr 10, 2010 15:17:52 GMT 5.5 @AP Singh said:

I have written earlier that Chechi and Bhati Gotra belong to Gujjar Kushan Era. Also Tashkent is named after Chechi Gotra of Gujjars already clarified as Chach Khand

I have serious doubts over the link between the Pratihars and Shahi Dynasty. I also dont think that Chach Brahmins were actually of Gurjar origin.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahi
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayapala

Jayapala Janjua Shahi, the son of Asatapala and father of Anandapal, was the first king and founder of the Hindushahi dynasty of Afghanistan and Northwest Pakistan
So the list will be like:
Asatapala>jaipala>anandpala>Trilochanpala>bhimpala

But according to your list
Jaipal line is as follows:
MAhipal>1. Jaipal 2. Anandpal, son of Jaipal 3. Trilochanapal son of Anandpal 4. Yashpal son of Trilochanapal.

And moreover the Gurjar Pratihars kings were:

Mahendrapala II (944 - 948)
Devpala (948 - 954)
Vinaykpala (954 - 955)
Mahipala II (955 - 956)
Vijaypala II (956 - 960)
Rajapala (960 - 1018)
Trilochanpala (1018 - 1027)
Jasapala (Yashpala) (1024 - 1036)


The confusion is regarding Trilochanpal...there might had been many Trilochanpals during 1000 to 1030 AD.

Dear Ashok,

I am not talking about Chach Brahmin here but I am talking about the Chechi Gotra of Gujjars who were original rulers of Cherchan during Gujjar Kushan Era. Chach was not even a Gujjar Brahmin since Gujjar Brahmins avoid the gotras of their mother and father while arranging marriages but Chach married his own sister born out of his father and his other wife. Moreover read in the context of history. Chach never ruled the areas where Tashkent and Chechanya is located. It was under the rule of Gujjar Kushans. Read the Rabatak and other inscription of Kushans.


2. I know Jats and Huns are mentioned in chinese annals and the subgroup of Yuezhi tribe but the they came approximately after 500 hundred years later than Gujjar Kushans. The original gruops who came along with the Gujjars are part of the Gujjar tribe and that is the reason Jat and Hun is gotra among Gujjars.

3. Regarding second point you have written Asatpal, the father of Anandpal. Asatpal is Khistipaldeva only which was another name of Gujjar Samrat Mahipaldeva.

Also if Huns ( White Hun) were assimilated among Gujjars who was Abdali? Why he was not assimilated?

On wiki the information gets changed everyday. Earlier Jaipaldeva was written as Gakkar king prior to he is made a Janjua. In history he is written as Brahmin but he was son of Mahipaldeva and enjoy the same title as his father. If Asatpal was Janjua, how he was holding dominion from Kabul to Kannauj and how Gujjar kings of Kannauj, Kalanjar,Ajmer,Delhi supported him.

This is separate topic and will be covered under the booklet I am preparing beforeplacing it on allempires.com and WIKI.

Also I would like to know that how you are calling the Tanwars as Huns? Please dont cite the similarity of pronunciation between Torman ( a Hun king) and Tanwar. In that case there must have been a Gotra of Mihir ( named after Mihirkula) who was a better known king of Huna than the Torman. [/b]

Regarding Bhati and Nagar please read the following verse of kalinjar inscription of Yashovarman a Gujjar ruler of Chandila Gotra:-

Kailash-ud-bhotnath-suhriditi tatah Keerraj prapede.
Sahistsmadvap-dwiptgavlenanau-Herambpal:I

Here Bhotraj is for Bhati Gujjar who were rulers of Bhota including the areas covering Kialash Parwat and Keer Raj is for the rulers of Kangda having its capital at Nagarkot. Herambpal was the another name ( Viruda, Tiltular) of Samrat Mahipal. He is also called as Vinayakpaldeva in some other inscriptions comparing him to lord Ganesa.

This indicates that Gujjar gotras are named after the places they ruled and not after the legends though there may be some exceptions.

[Ashok Harsana]

Sorry for the confusion, I thought you were talking about Chach rulers of Sind.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sindh_700ad.jpg


About hepthalites

www.indianetzone.com/42/coins_hunas.htm

Please read carefull from page no. 8 onwards
www.scribd.com/doc/24974744/New-Text-Document

....its an eye opening article. it connects hepthals to yuezhis and modern Abdalis (Durranis).

The abdalis were not assimilated to Kshatriya (not only Gurjar) population of India because they did not enter the Indian boundaries. And there are millions of hans and Chechis "who were" undoubtedly Gurjars in past but later they were not able to connect themselves to their ancestors. You just need to Google Chechi and hun.

The country Hungari (hun-nagri) was named after the huns but we dont find any Gujjar there. The Punjabi tribes named Chopra, Chawla, Chhabra, bedi, kohli and Bhatiya have a large number of Gujjars who have lost their connection and are known as Khatris or only punjabis (specially Chopra and Chhabra are exclusively from from Gujjar tribe).

But As I have mentioned in my last posts, you have to understand that Pratihars were Tomars and so were Chaps and Solankis etc. And Tomars were clearly hepthalites. You can see my earlier links for the connection between Hepthals and Pratihars. Many historian claimed that Gurjars are the descendants of Kushans, Huns and yuezhis. They never ever noticed that the Hunas and kushans alongwith Yuezhis were actually "Gurjars" themselves.

now lets understand it this way:
The Famous king Toramana was a hepthalite for sure. he was the descendant of a famous Hepthal king jabula (Shahi Zabula or Chhabila, you may find many Gujjar surnames and villages names after that King, namely jabalpur, jhavli). There is a province in Afghanistan named Zabula.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabul_Province
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabulistan

There were many kings named Toramana (simply called Tormara) thats why we have a large number of descendants of this this particular group. The Guls of Pak and Afghanstan, Mehr, Mehras and Meds of Indo-pak are supposed to be the descendants of Mhir Gul.

The Gurjars and hepthals cannot be distinguished from each other as they were same. Tomara tribe took its name from an ancestor Toramara (which is quite rare in Gurjar surname formation).

[AP Singh]

Apr 12, 2010 12:51:34 GMT 5.5 @AP Singh said:

Apr 10, 2010 17:27:53 GMT 5.5 Ashok Harsana said:

Hello AP bhai saab,

Dear Ashok,

I am not talking about Chach Brahmin here but I am talking about the Chechi Gotra of Gujjars who were original rulers of Cherchan during Gujjar Kushan Era. Chach was not even a Gujjar Brahmin since Gujjar Brahmins avoid the gotras of their mother and father while arranging marriages but Chach married his own sister born out of his father and his other wife. Moreover read in the context of history. Chach never ruled the areas where Tashkent and Chechanya is located. It was under the rule of Gujjar Kushans. Read the Rabatak and other inscription of Kushans.

I am sorry for a mistake here. In fact, it was Dahir son of Chach who married his own sister, the daughter of Chach from other wife Chach than the mother of Dahir.

[AP Singh]

Gujjar Kasana

Rabatak ( Afghanistan) Inscription of the Great Kaniska, a Gujjar of Kasana Gotra.


Translation by Mukherjee, B.N., "The Great Kushana Testament", Indian Museum Bulletin, Calcutta, 1995:[5]

1-3 ["The year one of Kanishka, the great deliverer, the righteous, the just, the autocrat, the god, worthy of worship, who has obtained the kingship from Nana and from all the gods, who has laid down (i.e. established) the year one as the gods pleased."
3-4
"And it was he who laid out (i.e. discontinued the use of) the Ionian speech and then placed the Arya (or Aryan) speech (i.e. replaced the use of Greek by the Aryan or Bactrian language)."
4-6
"In the year one, it has been proclaimed unto India, unto the whole realm of the governing class including Koonadeano (Kaundinya< Kundina) and the city of Ozeno (Ozene, Ujjain) and the city of Zageda (Saketa) and the city of Kozambo (Kausambi) and the city of Palabotro (Pataliputra) and so long unto (i.e. as far as) the city of Ziri-tambo (Sri-Champa)."
6-7
"Whichever rulers and the great householders there might have been, they submitted to the will of the king and all India submitted to the will of the king."
7-9
"The king Kanishka commanded Shapara (Shaphar), the master of the city, to make the Nana Sanctuary, which is called (i.e. known for having the availability of) external water (or water on the exterior or surface of the ground), in the plain of Kaeypa, for these deities - of whom are Ziri (Sri) Pharo (Farrah) and Omma."
9-9A
"To lead are the Lady Nana and the Lady Omma, Ahura Mazda, Mazdooana, Srosharda, who is called ... and Komaro (Kumara)and called Maaseno (Mahasena) and called Bizago (Visakha), Narasao and Miro (Mihara)."
10-11
"And he gave same (or likewise) order to make images of these deities who have been written above."
11-14
"And he ordered to make images and likenesses of these kings: for king Kujula Kadphises, for the great grandfather, and for this grandfather Saddashkana (Sadashkana), the Soma sacrifier, and for king V'ima Kadphises, for the father, and for himself (?), king Kanishka."
14-15
"Then, as the king of kings, the son of god, had commanded to do, Shaphara, the master of the city, made this sanctuary."
16-17
"Then, the master of the city, Shapara, and Nokonzoka led worship according to the royal command."
17-20
"These gods who are written here, then may ensure for the king of kings, Kanishka, the Kushana, for remaining for eternal time healthy., secure and victorious... and further ensure for the son of god also having authority over the whole of India from the year one to the year thousand and thousand."
20
"Until the sanctuary was founded in the year one, to (i.e. till) then the Great Arya year had been the fashion."
21
"...According to the royal command, Abimo, who is dear to the emperor, gave capital to Pophisho."
22
"...The great king gave (i.e. offered worship) to the deities."
23

[Pawan Dhaliya]

Dear A.P.singh ji have you any information about Dhaliya Gotra

[mihiryatender]

dear pawan dhaliya , my self yatender and as i know "Dhaliya" is the sub branch of Chaprana
gotra of gurjars, in merrut region dhaliya people use the title "chaprana".
The ancient city "chedi" is known as the place of dhaliya and their is famous words
"chedi ke dahal", in some books authers write that dhaliya is the subbranch of yadavas,
and chap dynasty is ancesser of karan of mahabhrata, they also write the meaning of chapotkat
as "dhanush veer".

[AP Singh]

Apr 23, 2010 16:25:23 GMT 5.5 @Pawan Dhaliya said:

Dear A.P.singh ji have you any information about Dhaliya Gotra

Dear Pawan,

Dahal Mandala was large region ruled by the Gujjars having its boundries touchig present day Jabalpur, Banaras and Malwa (Ujjain). Later after the fall of Gujjar Pratihar Empire this region was ruled by kalchuris but soon taken over by Gujjar Parmars of Ujjain.

Dahaliya Gujjars were rulers of this region on behalf of Gujjar Pratihar Emperors.

Dahaliya and Chaprana are considered the same Gotra among Gujjars and they don’t intermarry among themselves. My mother belonged to this celebrated and royal Dahaliya clan of Gujjars.

Many inscription of the Gujjar Rajas of Dahaliya dynasty founded by
Major-general A. CUNNINGHAM, DIRECTOR-GENERAL OP THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY OP INDIA.

The inscriptions bears the name of Raja Nara Sinha Deva
Dahaliya, and is dated in the Samvat year 1216, or A.D.
1159. Two later names are preserved on copper-plates be-
longing to the large village of Kakareri, also in northern Rewa.
These are Jaya Sinha Deva in A.D. n 1175, and Vijaya Deva
in A.D. 1 196.

The text in one of the inscription is read as follows : —

1. Samvat 12 16 BhAdra sudi pratipada Ravau|| DAhAliyan MahArAjA

2. dhiraja Sri Nara Singha Deva Vijaya rAjye|| Pipala —

mahA —

3. rAnak Sri Jalhana putra rAnak Sri kkihulasya Kali-juga

4. DharmmArtha khata Khandika GhAta bandhan Margrateti-

mika Deva KarA

5. j)itaiti|| Dharmartha k&ma moksha sadhana|| KausAmbi

nikAsa Ran—

6. ti AnAmajAti udharitah|| Thakur Sri KamalAdhara likhita

7. sutradh&ra KamalA Sinhah some | KokAsam|| Pal h an a

Jalhana.

[Mr Gurjar]

Hi to all my Gurjar brothers and sisters.

Dear Mr AP Singh Ji and Ashok Ji

I have been reading this particular forum on Gurjar gotra’s very interesting and informative.

I have two questions for your selves regarding Gurjars, which I believe AP Singh ji and brother Ashok would have the answers to this matter.

1). Why do we have sub castes (gotra’s) among our caste? This doesn’t make sense reason being, if I may say AP singh ji you have quoted in an earlier post that Gurjar’s are the son’s of Rama son.

Which in essence means we all (Gurjar’s) have one grandfather Rama. So then why do we have different sub caste like Chechi, Kasana, chauhan, Solanki, etc…….

Is their difference within Gurjar them selves or is their another reason for these sub castes.


I will be waiting for your reply thank you.

[Ashok Harsana]

First of all, I wud like to explain that clan system was a tradition among ancient indian tribes. Every community was divided among these clans or subclans. Its not possible for all the Gujjars to use Ram, Luv or kush as their surname and its not also logical.

Gotra and subcaste are not same...A Gotra is basically named after the kul Hrishi or the family priest. While Subcaste is generally derived from the name of a famous person of a familly or from a particular place where the partiular subcaste originated or ruled.


Anyways u can try to understand this puzzle here:

Gujjars were divided among five main clans until Kushans : these five clans were Kasana, Khatana, Chechi, Gorsi, Bargat

Four out of these five clans were derived from the word Gurjar only:

Kasana: Gurjar>Kujar>Kusar>Kusana>Kasana

Khatana: Kasanas of Khotan kingdom

Chechi: Gurjar>Kyuchi>yuchi>Chechi

Gorsi: Gurjar>Gorsar>Gorse>Gorsi

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kucha

Many further subclans were derived from this word Gurjar..

But other subclans were derived after the titles used by famous persons of our community.
E.g Pratihars, who were of Kushan clan (and Tomar subclans, which in turn was a part of Hun confederation) were known as Chapotkrisht or Chap (means excellent bowman) until 8th century and they later used the title Pratihar. While their family name was Salumbare (as they originated in the place named Salumbar in Rajasthan). Later all of these groups separated and formed a separate clan or subcaste.

Today we have all these clans as different surnames in our community. We have Kushans, Tomars, Huns, Chaps, Pratihars and Salumbares.

So now you can better understand the formation of a subclan under a caste or community.

But we shoudl ot forget that we all are Gujjars and we should b proud of that...

After all being Gujjar is a matter of pride .....

[Mr Gurjar]

Thanks you Ashok bhai your welcoming was overwhelming.

Anyway thanks for your reply, you said it wouldn’t be logical to use rama, luv, kush as their surnames but being divided into 100’s of sub clans is more logical.

Personally I think there shouldn’t be any sub clans and all Gurjars should only be Gurjars and Gurjars only.

Can you please explain in more detail about what you said earlier that gotra doesn’t mean sub clan? Please give some examples of this.

Thank you.