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Post by A progressive on Jun 8, 2009 20:15:56 GMT 5.5
I know you are writing in guise of "progressive" to hide the past of your own community. We never wrote anything derogatory against anyone on this forum. Infact it was you (vraj) who started comparing no of Jat and Gujar MPs first.
Secondly whatever I have written as "a progressive" I mean it and it is authenticated and well supported by evidences. I take full responsibility of every word which i have written.
The last caste based census was held in 1931 in British India and I repeat as per caste based Census reports in British India Jats are roughly double in Numbers as compared to Gujars.
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A progressive alias AAINA
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Post by A progressive alias AAINA on Jun 8, 2009 20:46:31 GMT 5.5
A great no of Muslim Gujars are now in Pakistan , POK and in parts of Afganistan.
The following figure shows census 1881 of British India:
Castes.
Agamudyan 302338 Dossadh 1138651
Agria and Mithaerria 170573 Dubla 129241
Ahar 272863
Ahir 4649387 Elaven 387176
Attorn 179314
Ambattan 342816 Gadaria 940730
Ambalakaren 155537 Ganda 233991
Arora 601440 Gangadikar Vakkaligar 457456
Gareri 112400
Babhan 1031501 Ghatwal 113174
Bagdi 762206 Ghirit 160252
Balai 311304 Golla or Gaoli 309868
Balija 782667 Gond 771315
Bania 3275921 Gonda 144063
Banjara 166144 Goshain 171060
Barhai 566192 Gour 214818
Barhi 484424 Gowari 110579
Barui 218812 Gujar 1747896
Bauri 491409 Gwalla 4005980
Bedaru 184410
Berad 263896 Halukurubaru 225500
Bhangi and Mehter 595078 Hari 297747
Bhandari 159308 Holayaru 447421
Bhar 369983
Bhat 295633 Idayen or Idaiyár 1071882
Bhil 550617
Bhoi or Besta 905616 Jain 189911
Bhuinhar 188207 Jaliya 381564
Bhuinya 463656 Jandra 107169
Bhumij 251606 Jangam 322704
Bhurji 304844 Ját 2643109
Bind 209435 Jhinwar 433884
Boishnab 568032 Jugi 340342
Chamar 10351469 Kachari 282566
Chambhar and Khalpa 231956 Kachhi 2261029
Chandal and Changa 1749608 Kahar 1871533
Channan 128600 Kaibartha 2137542
Chassa 549997 Kaikalar 323788
Chuhra 1078739 Kalal 298062
Kalar 153071
Darzi 240087 Kalingalu 116060
Das (Halwa) 122639 Kalita 254007
Devangulu 136914 Kallam 397873
Dhangar 1188601 Kalu 170782
Dhanuk 667482 Kalwar 535819
Dhed 110040 Kamma 795795
Dhimar 194118 Kandara 120906
Dhobi 1468974 Kandu 687471
Dom 721655 Kanet 345775
Kapali 130240
Karan 106332 Nair 336227
Kawa 1102255 Nath or Jugi 121901
Kawar 115559 Nhavi or Hajam 242334
Kayasth 2161489 Nuniya 324063
Kewat 521053 Oddan 363289
Khandait 617904 Ooriya 101199
Kharwar 211160
Khatik 192850 Padivaoi 376847
Kliatri 519373 Pakanati Kapu 107341
Khond 135960 Pan 251500
Koch 1878804 Panchamsali 294567
Kodula 244090 Parayen 3290038
Koeri 1207951 Pareet 162137
Kol 363952 Pasi 1203383
Koli 917524 Pod 325755
Koli Konkani 125949 Poolayen 199119
Kolimaratha 881014 Powar 106081
Koli Talabda 661.865 Pulli 1294982
Komati 591639
Kongavellalan 142933 Raddi 654700
Kori 895744 Rajbansi 106376
Koshti 315424 Rajwar 131364
Kumhar 2391148
Kummalen 784998 Sadgop 557950
Kunbi 2661645 Sahora 103490
Kunbikadwa 334881 Saini 152632
Kunbilewa 568038 Sakkili 1126837
Kunbi Maratha 4610778 Sale 206794
Kurmi 4123699 Sah or Salewaru 234618
Kuruba Grolla 180535 Savarula 131469
Kusavan 263975 Sembadavan 100019
Kwumbar 114378 Setti 235303
Shannan 1478694
Lingayat 457221 Sivachar Gaudaru 259110
Lodli 1040724 Sonar 979730
Lodhi 274392 Sonthal 210661
Lohana 348517 Sudra 385941
Lohar 1803854 Sunri 589021
Lonia 378619 Sutar 363198
Madak 308821 Taga 115920
Madigaru 734716 Tailanga 341264
Mahajun 634440 Tamoli 320266
Maliar 1435886 Tanti 679958
Mahar and Dhed 1197730 Tarkhan 596941
Mai 145364 Tatwa 247865
Malayala Shudra 464260 Teli 3219944
Mali 1286372 Teli and Ghanchi 200183
Mallah 1161852 Telugalu 613090
Mang 576475 Teor 349117
Marar 184519
Marasa Yakkaligar 126168 Vakkaligars 111732
Marathe or Araikulam 450781 Vanan 528458
Mehra 231624 Vanian 339136
Mina 433627 Vannian 1075386
Moravan 256304 Vapparavan 104959
Munurwar 187833 Velama 348830
Mussahar 549524 Vellalar 1627736
Mutrasi 104671
Mutsatta 133141 Wanjari 767177
Na Hambadi 106682 Yadavalu 105426
Nai 2045722
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A progressive alias AAINA
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Post by A progressive alias AAINA on Jun 8, 2009 21:48:01 GMT 5.5
Some references of texts from British records in view of comments by 'fake progressive':
484. The G-ujars, who now, under British in- fluences, have become good agriculturists, muster 1,747,896. The largest number of this caste is found in the Punjab, where there are 627,502: Eajputana contains 402,709; Central India, 337,466; the North-West Provinces, 269,838; the Central Provinces, 44,289; Ajmere, 32,690; Bombay, 31,817. A few of the caste are given against Berar, 967; Hyderabad, 562; Bengal, 41; and Madras, 15.
469. The Jats number 2,643,109, and are found scattered about in 10 of the 18 Indian Provinces. Their numbers are largest in the north of India; in the Punjab they are 1,498,694; the North-West Provinces contain 674,547, and Rajputana 425,598. The other Provinces in which they are found are Ajmere, with 31,788; the Central Provinces, 6,872; Bengal, 3,884; Bombay, 1,336; Hyderabad, 278; Berar, 89; and Baroda, 23. Some of the smaller States in Ttajputana, such as Burtpore and Dholepore, are almost entirely peopled by Jats; and in the tracts bordering on the Jumna, to the north-east of Delhi, they are by far the best cultivators of the North-West Provinces.
462. Next in numbers are the Ahirs, the herdsmen of North India, with nearly five millions, 4,649,387. Of these again, the largest numbers are found in the North-West, 3,584,572. The Central Provinces Contain more than half a million, 500,395; Central India nearly a quarter of a million, 246,376; Bajputana 130,653; and tha Punjab 173,640. The Ahirs, like the Chamars, are found in 10 provinces.
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A progressive alias AAINA
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Post by A progressive alias AAINA on Jun 8, 2009 22:53:41 GMT 5.5
From the Anthropological records of H.H. Risley and E.A. Gait , ( 1903 )
The Gujars.
586. Before finally leaving the consideration of Râjasthânî, it is necessary to mention the interesting tribe of Gurjjaras, or Gûjars, who appear to have entered India from the north-west in about the fifth century A.D. There are two branches of them, a northern and a southern. The Southern Gûjars occupied Gujarat, and gave their name to that country. The Northern spread over the Punjab (where they gave their name to two districts) and the western part of the United Provinces. They are. a nomadic tribe, and numbers of the Northern branch wander over the mountains north of the Punjab, as far, at least, as Kashmir. The Gûjars of the Punjab proper speak the languages of the people amongst whom they live, but those of the Himalaya have a tongue of their own, which in its grammar is indistinguishable from that of the language of Jaipur. Whether they got their language from the Western Pahârî tribes, to be dealt with under the northern group of languages, and whose speech is closely related to Râjasthânî, or whether the Jaipurîs got their language from the Gûjars of Gujarat. I am not yet in a position to say, as the Linguistic Survey has not yet reached these parts of India; but it is a curious and noteworthy fact that we find in the mountains of Kashmir a dialect of a language spoken so many hundred miles to their south-east.
Gujari
Where spoken. Number of speakers.
Central Provinces 1,272
Kasmir 126,849
Punjab 76,168
Elsewhere 33
TOTAL. Gujari 204,322
Localised groups.
855. Of the localised groups a large number are admittedly tribes. The Bhil, Gond, Koli, and Santâl come within this category and are still outside the Hindu social system. The Doms, Dosâdhs, Gujars, Jâts, Kaibarttas, NamaSûdras (Chandâls), Pods, Nâyars, Pallis, Parâiyans (Pariahs), and Râjbansi-Koch represent tribes which have been transformed into castes at a comparatively recent date and retain some traces of the tribal stage of development.
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Post by Progressive Plus on Jun 9, 2009 12:25:56 GMT 5.5
I know you are writing in guise of "progressive" to hide the past of your own community. We never wrote anything derogatory against anyone on this forum. Infact it was you (vraj) who started comparing no of Jat and Gujar MPs first. Secondly whatever I have written as "a progressive" I mean it and it is authenticated and well supported by evidences. I take full responsibility of every word which i have written. The last caste based census was held in 1931 in British India and I repeat as per caste based Census reports in British India Jats are roughly double in Numbers as compared to Gujars. The Britishers have catagorised Gujjars as a criminal tribe because of two reasons:- 1. They were warriors and could create a problem for their empire with slight instigation or slight disrespect for shown by Britishers for Mother India. 2. The Gujjars were well connected with the Gujjars of present day Pakistan and present day Afghanistan because of their nomad and warrior like lifestyle. In this manner the problem could have been of very high magnitude which would have been beyond control. By decalring Gujjars as criminal tribe and making it compulsory for them to report weekly at Police stations was like house arrest for the Gujjar population. In the above mentioned scenario many Gujjars have hidden their caste identity. That is probably the reason why so many of Gujjar Gotras are common with Khatris in Punjab like, Kohli, Bhatia,Chopra, Gujral, Kochar ( distorted word for Gujjar). The Others like kalra etc. claim that they are a branch of Gujjar pratihars but started using the name of their village as their surname. In Afghnaistan, Pakistan, Jammu and Kashmir and Uttarakhand the Jat and Lodh is also a gotra of Gujjars. The other prominent Gujjars gotras are Bajjad, Khatana, Kasana,Chauhan,Chechi,Poswal,Gorsi,Dor or Doi etc. etc. Hence the 1931 census can not be held valid. Please read the name of my earlier post as progressive plus. the + character was not accaepted by the site along with the name. Gujjar population in India is much bigger than Jats because some of the states like Gujarat, Karnatake, Maharashtra have sizable Gujjar populations. I dont want to discuss about Jats since Vijay raj kind of people among Jats start writing in fake Gujjar names and start spoiling the harmony between the two communities. |
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Post by Ashok Harsana on Jun 9, 2009 12:33:38 GMT 5.5
There is a confusion...pls pm me and clear who's writing as a progressive and who is this progressive plus...
Kaun patna se hai aur kaun CA se aur kaun Dilli se kuchh samaj nahi aa reha
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Post by Progressive Plus on Jun 9, 2009 12:36:34 GMT 5.5
.........Simultaneously Gujars should accept reality and should not make false claims.........Gujars are roughly 1 crore in India ........and Jats are double in number as compare to Gujars.........Gujars have very limited representation in political, educational and administrative circles of the country.........Gujars are also economically weak, less educated and do not have any alternative economy..........they have to go a long way .......!!! This post should be deleted. This person want to spread a hate discussion by giving wrong information about Gujjars. In the past also at samajsandesh.com this kind of people killed that site and never allowed the healthy discussion to take place. By the way what is the source of his information about the population of Jats and Gujjars? Why he want to discuss only about Jats and Gujjars? Historically both the communities fought together against invaders except for Britishers where the Gujjars fight agaist the Britishers was total and Jats had a mixed reactions. some of the Jats fought against Britishers and some of the them sided with them. Even Shah Mal Jat ( of Mawai gotra which is prominently found among Gujjars also) did not have much Jat support base and most of his supporters were Gujjars only? Many people says that Gujjars were the biggest loosers and Jats were the gainers in 1857 war of Independence? I dont think it is true and this was probably a game plan to create a divide between Gujjars and Jats by others who enjoyed the actual benefits after the first war of Indepence was crushed. Historical records shows that Biggest loosers in Western UP in 1857 war of Independence were Gujjars and Sayyads and biggest gainers were Baniyas and Khatris. Please read the name as Progressive Plus in place of progressive since + character was not accepted by the site alongwith the name. |
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A progressive alias AAINA
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Post by A progressive alias AAINA on Jun 9, 2009 23:09:59 GMT 5.5
It appears that some one is trying to get rid off the debate started by himself by creating fake identity and simultaneously he is trying to justify the stand (by this way or that way ) taken initially by him comparing no of MPs...........?
Gujars were notified as criminal tribe in the western part (only two districts) of Uttarpradesh, known as United provinces during the British Raj. And not all over the British India.....so there was no question of hiding identity during Census by Gujars in rest of India. Seondly more than 200 castes were declared as criminal tribes including 'Chowkidar Mina' of Rajputana, Jats in some area of PEPSU(Punjab and Patiyala and East Punjab States Union).......and the caste based population figures given by Britishers were even at the level of Tehsil..........and practically the same appears to be roughly correct even today if we see the figures proportionately. These caste based Census of British India are used by the policy makers of Government of India even today.
Dont underestimate the work get done by the Britishers from Indians during their "Raj" of 250 years at every sector. They tried to understand Indian castes, religion, culture and language etc by all possible means and accordingly framed policies for governance.... !
Now please provide details of Gujars who are inhabiting in great numbers in Maharashtra, Gujrat and Karnataka as claimed by you .......please also provide name of districts/tehsils/ villages with "gotra" so that the same can be verified.....?
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Post by gujar on Jun 13, 2009 13:20:50 GMT 5.5
Maharshatra: They are prominent in Khandesh region and are known as Dode gujar, Leva Gujars, Reve Gujars and Dore gujars. They are one of the 5 royal clans out of the 96 maratha clans. There are also a section of Dhangars which call themselves Kshatriya Gujars and intermarry with North indian Gujjars. They are also found in Pune and Nasik. You can just search with gujar surname and you will find amazing results..its not that they are settled recently....but factually they had been residing there since centuries. Gujarat: There are setteled in many pockets of this state including Kutchh. They are known as Lehva Gujars, Gujar kshatriyas, Dode Gujars etc. Waghelas, Rathore, Chauhan, Parmar, Khodiyar, Padiyar, Sawana and Varu are the main sub classes. read more about them in orkut community named kutch gujar kshatriya samaj. www.orkut.co.in/Main#Community.aspx?cmm=13830273Many Gujjars from DELHI NCR are now getting married in Gujarat. |
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Post by Manoj Padihar on Sept 7, 2009 13:51:34 GMT 5.5
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