Honour killing in Gujjars

[Krishan Kumar Gurjar - Lohmod]

Ram Ram Gurjar Bhaio,

Its Great that the Gurjars are worried towards the Gurjar comminity and giving their views.

Yes, killing is not the solution but what is the solution if this kind of thing happen in our society ?


What to do if someone eloped ?

Must give the reply those says killing is not the solution....

Some people say education, I agree but education might be prevention not the solution.

My question is what to do if this has happened ?

[Shreydev Panwar]

kya koi bata sakta hai ki woh tisri ladki kanha hai ?

Police ne in teeno ladko ko to dund liya, wo ladki kanha hai uska kuchh pata lagaya kya?

Ya woh balig hai to pulice use nahi dundegi

[Ms Verma]

Dear Gurjar Brothers,

The issue is sensitive.

Actually, setup and mindset of our community is different from other community. People with regressive thinking can not digest the fact that a girl has a right to choose her own partner,we still think that our girls are not capable of choosing thier partner. This is the general mindset, I am not supporting it. I am just trying to tell what people believe in.

As I told before, To prevent Killing crap we need open discussion,keeping our hearts and minds open.

We need to find out the reasons why this is happening. Why ELOPEMENT ? There should be better another way for sure. (I am afraid but I don’t understand how people even think about ELOPEMENT.Its a Disgarce to your own social image,your family & your society.) I am completely totally STRICTLY against of intercaste marriage for both girls & boys.

BUT even if it happening then,What we need
To have our children,siblings, friends in our Confidence level .We have to befriend with them as their best friend. We need to talk to them ,discuss their problems & conditions. Have to undestand what they want. Somewhere we may need to change our way of living for our children/siblings/friends but for good I think there is no problem in it.

In short,whatever the communicaton gap is their between parents and children, oldies and youths must need to fill/finish.

We have to let youth their freedom --freedom to education.Education is very important part in this. As a educated person become more mature,more responsible towards his/her family & society & genuine.Don’t pressurise youths.

As far as I know about this wazirpur episode girl was accepted by the family & helped by parents in setting up her new home ,cash ,jwellery and household things were given to the couple.Seeing this acceptance by the family has prompted the other two girls to run away . One of d girl has to return back because she was duped by her supposed lover within a short span of a fortnight.
Any person who wishes to go away from her/his community must leave that community once and for all.This is not a railway station that you can come and go weneva u wish .Young ones who wish not to remain in the cummunity must not return back to stake claim on other benefits that particular community offers. And We/community people have to must not accept them back also & have completely boycott them (even not relative one).

Killing anybody for any d**n good reason is CRIME__HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE ANYBODY LIFE.



Regards
Ms. Verma

P.S : These are my views.

@ Mr. Lohmod : I tried to answer to your questions. If am wrong somewhere,sorry for that in advance.

[Ashok Harsana]

Agreed (99%) with Ms verma.

Love marriage is a very big decision and it should be taken with a lot of caution.

If a girl is marrying out of her caste just because her elder sis done the same (and paved way for younger ones) then its definitely wrong (and as per the wazirpur residents, this happened in the current case. Monica got married to her friend in 2006 after a long steady affair, but her cousins, Shobhna, khushboo and swati eloped with their BFs, whom they hardly knew, just to follow Monica's steps.)

It is also to be noted here that Monica adviced her cousins to do so. These three girls Shobhna, Khushboo and Swati eloped with their friends at the very first chance, its like (according to a cousin of Ankit) they were desperate to elope with JUST ANYONE (just to show others that they are modern enough to not to get married into their caste. Isnt it kiddish?

The Girl, khushbu, who is still absconding with Ravi (who is 30 years old, 11 years elder to Khushbu) is said to have met Ravi a few days back through an advertisement in print media. Same was the case with Late Shobhna (Shobha), who came back after few days of her elopement.

That means that none of these girls (except Monica) were matured enough to take the decision.

Now just think of the mental tension and shame felt by their family members.

Its right that killing them was not a solution and no one (JUST NO ONE) can kill somebody for any DAMNN reason. There should have been some other, more feasibe, solution to this problem, which is, being faced by almost every ultramodern gujjar family these days.

[Krishan Kumar Gurjar - Lohmod]

Ram Ram Gurjar Bhaio !

Gaurav Bhai, I am sorry I missed to read your post ref Reply No. # 22

I appreciate that you have good knowledge of Gurjar polticians in U.P.


Dear Sonia Behan, Why are you saying sorry in advance to me, I am hurt by this.

I apreacite your views, like and praise what you post.

But I am disagree with some of views its my personal opinion, as the opinion depends on many things as education, friendship, family backgrounds, envorinment, parents/ elders thoughts etc. - It was just my view what I said and what am saying.

If by-mistake I hurt your feelings, I beg APPOLOGIES !

Dear sister, As you said that some of the gurjars think that ladies can't choose perfect partner, I don't think so and not much worried about that but the issue is "is that the perfect partner can't be from our community? "

As per the disscussion people are worried about why the sisters killed but I would further said how they left the man who duped that gurjar lady and where is he so called bihari-Ravi -THOSE PERSON ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO BE KILLED so that no men can dare to look at our sisters

If they left alive how the other will get a lesson not to look at Gurjar Girls.

Yes it seems hard - but I would like to say whether we should not proud to be Gurjar or we should keep running whats going on.

Further shooting them with a bullet is the least to punish them.

In the last month the court has given the sentence of FANSI ( hanged) to five people in the case of murder of a copule in Haryan

If killing is not the solution why the honorable court has given the death sentance to those people.

Those people where illetrate poor villager, they did a crime but according to the situation there should be less sentence why death sentence ?

As the Law wants to make the law and order in the country. whats if we think for the law and order in the community

Moreover, law is for the society not the society is for the law.

As law allows you to marry in your own gotra but our community does'nt

Law has changed/amended in the past and will be changed in the future too !!

[AP Singh]

Jun 30, 2010 10:15:09 GMT 5.5 Ashok Harsana said:

Agreed (99%) with Ms verma.


That means that none of these girls (except Monica) were matured enough to take the decision.

Even Monika was teenager at the time when she took that the decision to marry a boy of same village against the culture of the village.

I strongly feel that the minimum legal age of the females to marry with or without the consent of parents/gaurdian should be 21 years as is applicable for boys. However it may remain 18 years if the marriage is arranged with the consent of parents/guardians.

I lived in hostel althrough my college days but many students who used to live in cities taking small rooms on rent,used to tell about their love stories where they used to target specifically teenagers only in the guise of giving them tuitions. A girl of 21 years of age can give a befitting reply to these so called lovers. Mostly the parents who trust these kind of people are worst sufferers.

[Krishan Kumar Gurjar - Lohmod]

AP Bhai , you have raised a very good point.

But how we can take action on it.

Moreover, what you think if a lady elop after the age if 21, or marrige a non gujar after 21 without the parents consent

[Mr Bhati]

Dear Krishan Bhai,
First of all I am sorry if I hurt you by my post. I was little frustrated/angry when I wrote that post. Just to give you context before that I was having discussion with 2 of my nephews and they both were supporting honor killing and ironically both of them have panjabi girlfriends.

I had not much information about wazirpur family until Harshana bhai and Verma behen explained background of them. I understand what they(sisters) did was wrong and we should have stopped after socially boycotting them as Ms Verma suggested. But now see three of our youths life is wasted.

A brother suggested we should increase age for love marriage. I agree with him. Marriageable age should be still 18 but there should be provision that between 18-23 a boy or girl cannot marry without consent of their parents as at that age they are very immature. And only after 23 they are free to marry according to their will. I don't know if our politicians will push this cause.

As a p singh bhai suggested these turbulence are caused because of socio economic background(fast developing) we are living in. Therefore, we should explain our kids about benefits of marrying in our community and how they are going to loose all that all once they move out.

thanks

[AP Singh]

Jun 30, 2010 13:15:24 GMT 5.5 Krishan Kumar Gurjar - Lohmod said:

AP Bhai , you have raised a very good point.

But how we can take action on it.

Moreover, what you think if a lady elop after the age if 21, or marrige a non gujar after 21 without the parents consent

The issue about the legal age of females can be raised in Parliament by the elected public representatives. I don't think the issue will have any opposition at all since it is logical not to leave any girl at the age of 18 live off all on her own in case her friend ditches her later ( which is most likely) and at the same time her parents also disown her. On the other hand the man who is normally much older in such cases can be procecuted by the law. ( In one of these cases the man is atleast 11 year older than the girl who is just few days over 18 years).

After the age of 21 years where most of the children are not dependent on the their parents and/or guardians, can be free to take their own independent decisions ang legally can not be bound. However the bonds of love and respect for their parents can certainly stop children to take such decisions against the wishes of their parents.

Coming back to the present case, this is not the first intercaste marriage among Gujjars. I am personally aware about many families where the children in such cases either convinced or forced their parents to agree for such decisions or married own their own without involving their parents

Broadly there are three kind of such cases do exist presently, which I noticed:

1. The children were able to convince/force their parents to arrange/attend their marriages. Some of the parents, just to avoid the ackward situation of "elopment " has agreed to their demands.

2. The others who did not agree at the time of marriages but later softened their attitude towards thier children. The case of Monika falls in to this catagory. I have read in Times of India newpaper where mother of Monika informed that she was given 17 tolas of Gold after few years of marraige by her parents and also one esteem car was bought for her husband.

3. The third group is of those where the parents completely disowned their children and never ever met them again in their life. One of my Gujjar friend, running a professional HR Company, came across one such lady, who needed his for a job change. This lady was highly educated, her father was a retired senior army officer, this lady being a Gujjar married a Sharma who was working with her ( This sharma could be brahmin or a carpenter/blacksmith since both of these use the title Sharma).

In this case her father acted really tough and disowned her. Although the father had to carry the pain down inside his heart of not meeting his daughter again for the rest of his life but he made a point clear to all other unmarried children in the family that they have to choose either him or their partner and option of having both of them together is atleast closed in his family.

[Krishan Kumar Gurjar - Lohmod]

Dear Bhati Ji,

There is nothing to say sorry, Bhai Ji, Its OK

But its really shamefull regarding your nephews, I am sorry to say that.

AP Bhai, You explained very well.

I would like to add in ref to point no. 2 of yours that me too read that particular news and will like to add that the parents of Monica gave the flat to her in which she was living with her husband near wazirpur