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Post by Ashok Harsana on Dec 5, 2009 12:05:23 GMT 5.5
Khutana, an offshoot of Kusana were the rulers of the area called khutan (Original name "Kushtana" or Kushsthana). It It was said to be ruled by Kucha (Kusan) tribe. Kuchas names Kuchh (Gujarat), They are still present as a Gurjar Clan in Afghanistan as Kuchis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kucha(This article can be a great help for the research on Kushans and their Gujjar origin) They came to India with Huns and settled in Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh (most probabaly). They ruled in Madhya Praesh under Maavis and Chapotkats during 5th-6th centuries. Later they were divided into many small clans such as Harsana. They have close relation with Awanas* (Rulers of Awaan). * At the time when Alexander invaded India he came across many fierce warlike tribes names Bhatti, Khokhars, Awans, Janjua, Arjunenyas, Johiya and Malawas (All of them are present as Gujjar clans) Gorsi Clan (One of the five original Gurjar Clans i.e. Chechi, Gorsi, Kasana, Bargat & "?") is said to have taken its name from the word Gurjar itself, or it is a corruption of the cast name. (Gurjar > Gorjar > Gorsar > Gorsee > Gorse). There is one more view BTW, the word Gorsi is derived after the word Gurswar (Horse-Rider) but it seems less logical as Gorsi clan was present in Pakistan during 2nd centru BC and Horse was called Ashwa instead of Ghoda at that time. So Like all original Gurjar Clans** it is mere corruption of Gurjar, ** Like Chechi was derived from Gurjar (Gurjar > Chinese Yuchi and then corrupted to Chechi (Nekade) Kusan = Gurjar > Kusar > Kusan (Their King Kujula Kadpises, the chinese name for Gurjar kalvijaya, clears the confusion). The clan name Bergat has a separate origin. They were not given the full Gurjar status due to their maternal side not belonging to Gurjar tribe. Regards |
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Post by AP Singh on Dec 8, 2009 15:44:03 GMT 5.5
So Like all original Gurjar Clans** it is mere corruption of Gurjar, ** Like Chechi was derived from Gurjar (Gurjar > Chinese Yuchi and then corrupted to Chechi (Nekade) Regards . Chechi is not corrution of Guzar, the original word used for the tribe. ( Gurjara is a sanskrit word used having combination of two words i,e, Guzara and Raja=Gurjara. Chechi must have been one of the main branch of Gujjars ( known as Yyuechis in chinese history). They must be rulers of Cherchan. Chechanya is named after this clan. This clan is further divided among 40 sub clans like Gurjjaras of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Tashkent ( Old name Chach+ Khand) is named after this celebrated tribe of Gujjars. The various branched of this clan seems to be, Meelu ( Mohil, the rulers of Mohilsthan, i, e. present day Multan), Khalshyan ( Central asia from where the statue of Kushan prince was found), Chauhan ( also called Chaman, Chuhan,Chawan etc.) , Devara or Devda or Devde, Dhappa or Dhappe etc. Most of the old Gotras of Gujjars are related to the places located at Silk Road as the rulers of the regions. For Example Bokkan is mentioned as Vokkana Pati ( the lord of Vokkana) in the Mathura inscription of Gujjar Kushanas. See the details of Cherchan located in Central asia: CHERCHEN , a See also: TOWNtown of See also:EASTEAST, ALFRED (1849- )East See also:TURKESTANTURKESTAN, or HAZRETTurkestan, situated at the See also:NORTHERNnorthern See also:FOOTfoot of the Altyn-tagh, a range of the Kuen-lun, in 85° 35' E., and on the Cherchen-darya, at an See also:ALTITUDE (Lat. altitudo, from altus, high)altitude of 4100 ft . It straggles mostly along the See also:IRRIGATION (Lat. in, and rigare, to water or wet)irrigation channels that go off from the See also:LEFTleft See also:SIDESIDE (mod. Eski Adalia)side of the See also:RIVERriver, and in 19oo had a See also:POPULATION (Lat. populus, people; populare, to populate)population of about 2000 . The Cherchen-darya, which rises in the Arka-tagh, a more southerly range of the Kuen-lun, in 87° E. and 36° 20' N., flows See also:NORTHNORTH, BARONSNORTH, MARIANNE (1830—1890)NORTH, ROGER (1653-1734)NORTH, SIR THOMAS (1535?-16o1?)north until it strikes the See also:DESERTdesert below Cherchen, after which it turns north-east and meanders through a wide See also:BEDBED (a common Teutonic word, cf. German Bett, probably connected with the Indo-European root bhodh, seen in the Lat. fodere, to dig; so " a dug-out place " for safe resting, or in the same sense as a garden " bed ")bed (300-400 ft.), beset with dense reeds and flanked by older channels . It is probable that anciently it entered the disused channel of the Ettek-See also:TARIMtarim, but at See also:PRESENTpresent it joins the existing Tarim in the See also:LAKELAKE, GERARD LAKE, 1ST VISCOUNT (1744-1808)lake of Kara-buran, a sort of lacustrine " ante-See also:ROOMroom " to the Kara-koshun (N . M . Przhevalsky's Lop-nor) . At its entrance into the former lake the Cherchen-darya forms a broad See also:DELTA (from the shape of the Gr. letter A, delta, originally used of the mouth of the Nile)delta . The river is frozen in its See also:LOWERlower course for two to three months in the See also:WINTER, JOHN STRANGEWINTER, PETER (c. 1755-1825)winter . From the foot of the mountains to the See also:OASIS (Gr. &toss, the name given by Herodotus to the fertile spots in the Libyan desert: it probably represents an Egyptian word, cf. Coptic ouahe, ouih, to dwell, from which the Egyptian Arabic sod is derived)oasis of Cherchen it has a fall of nearly 4000 ft., whereas in the 300 M. or so from Cherchen to the Kara-buran the fall is 140C ft . The See also:TOTALtotal length is 5oo-600 m., and the drainage See also:BASIN, or BASON (the older form bacin is found in many of the Romanic languages, from the Late Lat. baccinus or bacchinus, probably derived from bacca, a bowl)BASIN, THOMAS (1412—1491)basin See also:MEASURESmeasures 6000-7000 sq. m . See Sven Hedin, Scientific Results of a See also:JOURNEY (through O. Fr. jornee or journee, mod. Fr. journee, from med. Lat. diurnata, Lat. diurnus, of or belonging to dies, day)Journey in Central See also:ASIAAsia, 7899-1902, vols. i. and ii . (1905–1906); also TAKLA-MAKAN |
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Post by Ashok Harsana on Dec 13, 2009 23:29:01 GMT 5.5
Hellp AP Bhaisab,
I request you to read a very interesting article on wikipedia regarding kucha people, that will clear a lot of confusion about kusan, kuchi, guchi, gusar, kusar, kujar being one and the same tribe.
And Gurjars were often called Kuchies or yuchees or chechis in chinese and pinyin languages. Even Heun-tsang called them Kuchi-lo.
Please tell me more after u have a look at the article about kuchas and pls see the books given in the reference portion of the article., thats a great source of knowledge for people researching on the early kushans.
Regards
Ashok Harsana
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Post by AP Singh on Dec 14, 2009 14:56:38 GMT 5.5
Hi Ashok,
Most of the old Gujjar Gotras, which are of Gujjar Kushana days,
amy be found at old Silk Road.
Kuchha can also be found on the same route.
Kuchha is not taken from the word Ku-che or Yuechi bat may be derived from the Gujjar Gotra of Kushan. The word Gurjara is not original word but it is Guzar and hence in old chinese Annals Gujjars are reffered as Yueche, Yuezhi or Ku-che. Later in Sanskrit version the Word became Gurjara which is made by combination of two Gujar+ Raja = Gurjara. That is the reason Huen-Tsang has used the word Ku-Che-lo and lo here is added for the additional word Raja.
All the places like Kashmir, Hidu-kush, Kashi, Kashka-Darya is named after this celebrated clan of Gujjars.
The other places in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan may be named by these Gujjar Princes when additional areas were given to to them to rule by Kanishka.
Kachha is variation of Kusha.
Similarly Khar can be also found in Central Asea and also mentioned alongwith the Vokkana in Mathura inscription. The exact word is used as Khar and Salar Pati which means the Gujjar Kushan rulers of Khar and Salar. Khari Gujjars must have been the rulers of Khar during the days of Gujjar Kushana Empire.
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Post by deepak dedha on Dec 14, 2009 18:54:42 GMT 5.5
hello ap bhai sahab
there is a confusion in your last post that the real word is guzar not gurjara.it is also possible that the word guzar was drived from gurjara.and what you think about the meaninig of this word gur-enemy and ujar- destroyer.and i have also gone through the most of our gurjars inscriptions.In those inscriptions you will never find the word gurjara.you will only find the word gurjar.when we write gurjar in english then we add "a" in the end of the word like.gurjara,huna,yadva.And yes it is possible that huen tsang is used the word "lo" for the additional word raja.because the gurjar king also wrote himself as gurjarnath, gurjarnaresh, gurjeshwar.
your regards
deepak dedha
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Post by AP Singh on Dec 15, 2009 12:15:59 GMT 5.5
Gurjarnath, Gurjareswar titles are used by Gujjar Solanki Kings like Siddheraj Jai Singh and KumarPal Solanki.
Solanki Gotra are from Siluka near Khotan ( present day Hetian). The Gujjar Solankis ruled over Ayodhya ( Saket) on behalf of Gujjar Kushan Emperors for 29 generations. Later around 350AD they moved to Present day Gujarat , Mahrashtra and part of Karnataka (called Vallamandal days, that means the outer states of Gujjar Kusahan Empire towards south). The Georgia was another boundry of the Empire in Central Asia. Intrestingly both of these borders having small Gujjar Principalities are kanown as Georgia ( Gujaraia) and Gujarat respectively. Probably the Gujjar Kushan Emperors kept best of their armies in these areas having their own kinsmen.
In Central Asia the word is still Gorj. In Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Spain the word is Gojar and in India it is Gurjara means Gurj+ Raja.
The Gujjar Solankis started using the Gurjareshwar only after the fall of Gujjar Pratihar Empire whereas I am talking about the word used 500 years before CE.
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Post by AP Singh on Dec 16, 2009 12:14:35 GMT 5.5
In Central Asia the Gujjar are called Gorz or Gojar today. Gorz Turks ( actually a federation of 40 different subclans like Gujjars of India, Pakistan Afghanistan are having many subclans) are called Turkman, which means not Turks but similar to Turks. ( Since probably the turks had Mongol ancestory and Turkman had Youechi or Gujjar Ancestory.
The equivalent word for Gurjara ( made by two words Gorz+Raja) is Czar which is corruption of Juzr or Gorz.
The meaning of Czar is the same as Gurjara.
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Post by Ashok Harsana on Dec 17, 2009 11:42:34 GMT 5.5
Very nice posts AP bhi saab,
Seems like you ahve solved the mistery of Gurjar origin (or migratio) related to central asia.
Are you able to connect Gujjars to Mahabhrata Times (5600 BC), as Krisna was said to be the first person settling at dwarka and naming the whole area as gurjar rasthra. His son (krishna's) , according to our epics, moved to far north (Sibera) and his lineage moved to further west and inhabiting europe in around 4000 BC. The latest records of people moving toward europe were rourans (Juan Juans or Avars) and Hunas (naming Hun-gari). Is that the reason hitlor called him the purest breed of Aryans and belonged himself to Gujjars. Is the the reason we find large Gujjar settlements in Spain and Germany.
Please sole this puzzle.
Best regards
Ashok Harsana
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Post by AP Singh on Dec 17, 2009 14:19:38 GMT 5.5
Hi Ashok,
I am of the opinion that Gujjars belonged to the Aryans of Ramayna stock. Apart from historical evidences like Gwalior inscription, Rajshekhar's description of Gujjar Emperor Mahipal ( Grandson of Samrat Mihir Bhoja Mahan) as Raghukulin, Col. Tod calling Gujjars like the son of Eshau ( Eshkvaku, a Great Ancestor of lord Rama) etc. etc. Britishers further supported this claim in Bombat Gazeteer describing Kushans a sub clan of Gujjars as the descendents of Kusha, the son of lord Rama.
The Aryans of Mahabharata stock were different than Gujjars and Aryans of Ramayana stock. The main cultural differences were as follows:
1. The Gujjars never intermarried with others like Lakhmana did not marry Suparnkha even after her repeated and desperate attempts. The Pandavas never left a chance to intermarry with others and indulged in fathering the children from the wives of others for example the birth of Rishi parasher and Vyas.
2. Arjuna married his own sister ( Subhadra), the daughter of his real maternal uncle. The Gujjars and Jats does not allow this kind of marriage even today. This kind of marriages are common among Hindus in South India and some part of Maharashtra. These people seems to be the descendents of people of Mahabharta Epic. I think the descendents of Krishna were pushed to southwards by the invasion of Shakas. Later, the Gujjars came back from what is called chinese Turkistan today and defeated the Shakas. Probably the Gujjars moved to what is called as chinese Torkistan today during the attack of Alexdender.
3. The Gujjars worship their ancestors and call them Devta. One may still find small temples in the fields of Every Gujjar family in every village. Kaniska the Great, A Gujjar of Kushana Gotra used to do the similar kind of worship for his ancestors as per the historical evidences available.
4. In Mahabharata , a Pandu prince, Yudhistira, kept his wife on stake to get back his kingdom but Rama kept everything on stake including his life for the sake of the honour for his wife. This is a difference which cal not at all be ignored while comparing the different cultures.
5.Gujjar Dynasties were based on clan like in Ramayana. The Kings were selected from their own caln. In Mahabharata it was not so. For example, Rishi Parashar was born from a prostitute ( Read Mahajan). Maharishi Vyash was born from a fisherwoman and Rishi parasher. Dhritrashtra and Pandu were sons of Vyas. This kind of practice is entirely opposite to what was adopted among the Gujjars. Among Gujjars in case the King did not have a son his nephew used to his successor among the Gujjar Aryans.
Hence it is believed that Gujjars belonged top Aryans of Ramayana stock.
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Post by AP Singh on Dec 17, 2009 17:54:44 GMT 5.5
Someone told me that Mandhar ( Mandar) and Lohmod are the branches of Gujjar Parmars.
Landhora state in Saharanpur belonged to Khubber Parmars. Khubber Parmars seems to be the rulers of Khyber Pass which connects to Pamer region at one end. This confirms that Khubber Parmars were rulers of Khyber Pass on behalf of Great Kushan Gujjar Empire.
Mandar Seems to be a later branch of as it derived its name from Mandu ( Near Ujjain) as Mandu+Har i,e,. the lords of Mandu. They have ruled Mandu on behalf of Gujjar Pratihar Emperors.
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